From Camino Wiki
12:04 <@mento> status: tinderboxen are green 12:04 <@froodian> w00t 12:04 <@mento> thanks, stuart 12:04 <@smorgan> n/p 12:04 <@smorgan> That's for doing the part that was actually breaking things ;) 12:04 <@mento> ha 12:04 * froodian waits for pink 12:05 <@mento> can you fix Tp now too? 12:05 <@smorgan> I was pleased that I independently came up with exactly the fix you landed just about the time you landed it 12:05 <@mento> heh 12:05 <@mento> pinkerton's afk 12:05 <@froodian> ah, k 12:05 <@mento> running around without pants, as usual 12:05 <@froodian> heh 12:05 <@froodian> shall we begin then? 12:05 <@froodian> everybody open the url in the topic 12:05 <@froodian> please 12:06 <@froodian> this last week has been a bit slow 12:06 <@froodian> because of the US holiday 12:06 <@froodian> but pretty good considering 12:06 <@froodian> and because of cairo 12:07 <@froodian> which if you don't all know, is what mento and smorgan were just chatting about 12:07 <@cl> yeah, heh. 12:07 <@cl> everyone download a trunk build and experience the funness :) 12:07 <@smorgan> Scrubbing over selects is really fun 12:07 <@mento> are page transitions black now? i only tried a cairo build through vnc. 12:07 <@smorgan> I highly recommend it 12:07 <@froodian> yeah, it's a bit funtastic atm :p 12:08 <@cl> scrubbing over any form widgets is fun 12:08 <@froodian> anyway, as far as Camino dev goes, we should get a hold on what we want for a2, and when we want it 12:09 <@froodian> there are currently 8 open bugs that are flagged 1.1a2? 12:10 <@froodian> many of which have partial or full patches 12:10 <@cl> kqueue has a patch 12:11 <@cl> spell-check has a sort-of patch that hwaara objects to 12:11 <@froodian> yeah. personally, if it's in the imminent future, I think we should hold a2 for kqueue 12:11 <@cl> and which smfr thinks can be done a better way 12:11 <@smorgan> Everyone objects to that patch (including me, and I wrote it) 12:11 <@froodian> heh 12:11 <@cl> I agree that kqueue needs to get into a1 12:11 <@cl> er, a2 12:12 <@smorgan> I plan to take another crack at that 12:12 <@froodian> mento: can we mark kqueue a2+ ? 12:12 <@mento> i haven't been following that. what is it? 12:13 <@smorgan> Quicksilver + download to desktop = hang 12:13 <@mento> oh, *that* 12:13 <@froodian> ( https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=318001 ) 12:13 <@mento> can we feasibly do it right by a2? 12:14 <@froodian> !summon kreeger 12:14 <@mento> if a2 is, say, before the end of the year? 12:14 <@froodian> heh 12:14 <@cl> "right" meaning ... ? 12:14 <@froodian> smorgan, do you have a feel for that? 12:14 <@froodian> having reviewed it? 12:14 <@mento> in a way that nobody objects to :) 12:15 <@smorgan> mento: the objecting is spellcheck, not kqueue 12:15 <@mento> go go gadget agenda 12:15 <@smorgan> Assuming kreeger has some time to put into it, kqueue will be fine. 12:15 <@mento> ok, so then it's just review comments that need addressing 12:15 <@mento> i vote for a2 12:15 <@smorgan> Right 12:15 <@froodian> cool 12:16 <@smorgan> spellcheck for a2 will have to see if I can come up with a cleaner fix 12:16 <@smorgan> Or if we decide to do something silly like land the hack just for a2 12:16 <@cl> the single-page bookmarking being broken is pretty ugly, if you ask me. that's definitely a 1.1 blocker but whether or not it's an a2 blocker, I dunno. 12:17 <@froodian> well, "broken" is relative 12:17 <@froodian> but yeah 12:17 <@froodian> i intend to have it fixed before kqueue ;) 12:17 <@cl> did we ever decide on a "good" way to do it? 12:17 <@mento> ug-lee hack 12:17 <@smorgan> mento: spellcheck? yeah 12:17 <@mento> smorgan: yup 12:18 <@smorgan> I just had spent hours getting no-where, and really wanted to see it work 12:18 <@froodian> on bookmarking, more or less. i need to talk to smorgan about it in more depth at some point - unexpected stuff cropped up 12:18 <@froodian> but that's for another time 12:18 <@smorgan> So I said "well, what's one way I *know* will work..." 12:18 <@mento> yeah. i think simon's probably on the right track. 12:18 <@smorgan> You can explain what he meant to me later 12:19 <@froodian> next? 12:19 <@cl> murph: where are you on the popup blocker stuff? 12:19 <@cl> we have three bugs under the general heading of "popup blocker" 12:19 <@cl> that are 1.1a2? 12:19 <@cl> one is the wrapping, which has a patch 12:20 <@murph> I've just incorporated smorgan's last review, and have an updated patch ready very soon.. 12:20 <@froodian> tboxen and cairo: we mentioned this already, suffice it to say that smorgan is a firefighting machine 12:20 <@froodian> other stuff in general notes is self-explanatory. does anybody have anything else before we go into specific bugs? 12:20 <@murph> an issue with enforcing a minimum wrapping amount is what's holding me up.. 12:21 -!- thebot has joined #camino-mtg 12:21 <@froodian> Bug 341967 12:21 < thebot> froodian: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341967 nor, --, Camino1.1, firstname.lastname@example.org, ASSI, Popup blocker notification text doesn't wrap properly 12:21 <@froodian> I'm not sure whether we should talk about this now, or a time when pink is here to + / - 12:21 <@froodian> thoughts? 12:21 <@cl> so we should have no problems getting that in a2, regardless, right? 12:21 <@froodian> errr, the thing we'd talk about would be the color 12:21 <@murph> yeah, definitely not 12:22 <@smorgan> Even without pink, we can at least talk about it 12:22 <@cl> we should at least get that off the ? list, then, and either it blocks a2 or doesn't. I say it doesn't block a2 but should block 1.1. 12:22 <@smorgan> Am I alone/crazy? 12:23 <@cl> smorgan: no, I totally agree. 12:23 <@cl> Blue is too "nice" 12:23 <@froodian> about disliking the blue? 12:23 <@smorgan> Yes 12:23 <@froodian> no, you're not alone 12:23 <@froodian> i'm not sure about the old orange/yellow though 12:23 <@cl> it should be bright red. 12:23 <@froodian> the intermediate graphic we have now really grew on me 12:23 <@cl> and say, "DANGER, WILL RONBINSON!" 12:23 -!- pinkerton has joined #camino-mtg 12:23 <@cl> s/RONBINSON/ROBINSON 12:23 <@smorgan> If we ever wanted a banner that said "This webite is totally awesome (Okay)", the blue would be perfect :) 12:23 <@pinkerton> sorry, eye appt 12:24 <@froodian> hi pink. we're talking about color for the pop-up blocker 12:24 <@smorgan> pinkerton: you're just in time to re-re-re-visit the color ;) 12:24 <@froodian> ardissone says to say he likes the last iteration of the orange/yellow that we had 12:25 <@pinkerton> picture? 12:25 * pinkerton still likes black 12:25 <@froodian> but i really like what shipped in a1. we could do that programmatically, right? 12:25 <@smorgan> Which I'd also be on board with, but I'm not married to it 12:25 <@smorgan> Or we do black 12:25 <@cl> black would be OK. 12:25 <@smorgan> But less rounded please? 12:25 <@cl> it is, after all, the new black. 12:25 <@froodian> a possible downside to black is that aqua buttons look a little out of place on it 12:25 <@froodian> pinkerton: sorry, don't have URLs to pics 12:26 <@froodian> or at least, i don't 12:26 <@pinkerton> i don't think they look that bad, really 12:26 <@cl> of what we've seen so far, my current favourite is what we shipped in a1 12:26 <@murph> I can change the gradient code to some different values and post some screens if we really need something to visualize.. 12:26 <@cl> with black being somewhere in the middle 12:26 <@cl> but blue being, well, bad. 12:27 <@froodian> murph: you could definitely do black programmatically so it could span multiple lines, right? 12:28 <@murph> yeah, right now there's a gradient being drawn that mixes two colors: start/end 12:30 <@murph> so, any simple shading will work with the current code by just changing the color components 12:30 <@froodian> right, but if we did it with the line down the center and not just as a straight gradient (though i agree w/ smorgan that a little less round could be nice) 12:30 <@froodian> like http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/4251/picture1gz4.png 12:30 <@froodian> that's doable too? 12:30 <@smorgan> There's no reason it shouldn't be 12:30 <@cl> for the record, I don't think the aqua controls look *that* weird. 12:30 <@cl> but I do think that "DO NOT ENTER" sign icon needs to go. 12:31 <@cl> don't we have a perfectly good OS X-style icon that we can use there already? :-p 12:32 <@cl> (or no icon at all, as in http://adggda.com/~ss/camino/mockups/popupblocker2-toned_down_blue.jpg ) 12:32 <@pinkerton> i don't mind that either 12:32 <@pinkerton> the icon helps catch your eye a little 12:32 <@pinkerton> but not too much 12:32 <@froodian> yeah, i like the icon 12:32 <@froodian> so it seems nobody really has too big a problem with black. is that what we want? 12:32 <@smorgan> murph: So can you code up a reasonable approximation of the current look in code? 12:32 -!- kreeger has joined #camino-mtg 12:33 <@smorgan> Seems like a good think to aim for 12:33 <@pinkerton> 8) 12:33 <@smorgan> And once it's code, it'll be easy to play with 12:33 <@smorgan> We could have a pref pane with three or four sliders 12:33 <@smorgan> Pick your own hue! 12:33 <@smorgan> :D 12:33 <@cl> ooh, sliders! 12:33 <@froodian> heh 12:34 * pinkerton shakes his head 12:34 <@murph> smorgan: yeah.. I can come up with something. 12:34 <@froodian> cool. if nobody has any other business... ? 12:34 <@murph> you mean the black one we shipped with in a1 correct? 12:34 <@smorgan> Right 12:34 <@murph> k 12:34 <@cl> well, that takes care of the popup stuff, mostly :-p 12:35 <@cl> still leaves bug 343937 12:35 < thebot> cl: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343937 nor, --, Camino1.1, email@example.com, NEW, Default "unblock popup" behavior should not include adding site to Exceptions List 12:35 <@cl> which I'd be inclined to minus for a2 simply because no one is working on it any more 12:35 <@cl> I do think that UI needs to be a little more thought out before we ship 1.1, though. 12:35 <@smorgan> No-one can work on it without a UI decision 12:36 <@froodian> i like the track begun by comment 8 12:36 <@cl> Personally, I like your idea, Stuart. 12:37 <@cl> anyone *dislike* the idea in comment 8 there? 12:38 <@smorgan> pinkerton: Have you looked at it? 12:39 <@cl> while he's thinking about it, can we jump briefly to bug 353433 and minus it for b1, since we think we've solved the current issue? 12:39 < thebot> cl: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=353433 nor, --, Camino1.1, firstname.lastname@example.org, ASSI, Preference window slow to open 12:39 <@pinkerton> let me look 12:40 <@smorgan> cl: Have we? I have no confidence of that 12:40 <@smorgan> Someone who sees it needs to test 12:40 <@cl> well, if your latest patch didn't fix it, do we have even a remote idea of what else might be the problem? 12:41 <@smorgan> Yes; finding feed: 12:41 <@smorgan> That's when it got slow 12:41 <@pinkerton> sorry, i'm not following that popup discussion 12:41 <@smorgan> Or we are doing extra work somewhere, maybe 12:41 <@smorgan> It was all refactored 12:41 <@smorgan> pinkerton: The issue is, can we handle both "show once" and "show and unblock" in a graceful way 12:42 <@smorgan> I was suggesting maybe cookie-like UI 12:42 <@smorgan> So you can show it, show it and unblock forever, close the bar, or close the bar and have it not show up for the site again 12:42 <@pinkerton> what does firefox do? 12:43 <@cl> sticks a "preferences" button in the bar 12:43 <@cl> next to the close widget. 12:43 <@cl> which, IMO, sucks, because you can't do anything except close the bar. 12:43 <@pinkerton> ew 12:43 <@smorgan> Eeew. It's a button that acts like a popup 12:44 <@pinkerton> right 12:44 <@cl> good god, that's fugly. 12:44 <@pinkerton> is there a "common case" here? 12:44 <@pinkerton> like what 90% of people want? 12:44 <@pinkerton> my guess is they just want to unblock a single popup 12:44 * ardissone|away doesn't like the black FWIW :P 12:44 <@pinkerton> but then that hides the whitelist functionality deep in prefs 12:44 <@smorgan> pinkerton: Or block forever 12:44 <@smorgan> I'd see that as common 12:45 <@smorgan> If you go to a site a lot that has an advertizing popup, you don't want the bar every time 12:45 <@cl> like CNN.com 12:45 <@ardissone|away> right 12:45 <@ardissone|away> that's annoying as all get out 12:45 <@pinkerton> does ff have ui for that 12:45 <@cl> I know CNN is going to keep showing it, and I want to be able to tell it to fack off without going to too much trouble. 12:46 <@ardissone|away> pinkerton: only to make the bar show in the status bar instead 12:46 <@cl> well, firefox has "don't show this message [the popup blocker bar] when popups are blocked" in the evil button menu 12:46 <@ardissone|away> god 12:46 <@cl> but that's not really particularly useful UI in this context :-p 12:46 <@pinkerton> let's stick with what we have now (only unblocks the current popup, not all, no blacklist all) and see what kind of feedback we get 12:47 <@pinkerton> we can argue around in a circle but i don't think we have enough data to know what's truely useful 12:47 <@pinkerton> yes, all those things would be great, but i don't think we can fit them all on the bar 12:47 <@froodian> what we have now isn't just only unblocks though 12:47 <@froodian> it's unblock and whitelist 12:47 <@pinkerton> oh 12:47 <@pinkerton> then lets stick with that, since it seem to work fine for me :D 12:47 <@cl> I think a cookie-style UI here with a "Remember" checkbox is a really good idea. 12:47 <@smorgan> pinkerton: We could add the checkbox at a slight height hit 12:48 <@pinkerton> checkboxes just add clutter 12:48 <@ardissone|away> yeah, people are complaining about show+whitelist being the only option 12:49 <@pinkerton> real users, or people like cl? :D 12:49 <@froodian> real users 12:49 <@froodian> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=485747 12:49 <@froodian> :p 12:49 <@froodian> ;) 12:49 <@smorgan> And we already have feedback that says they don't like seeing the bar all the time on various sites 12:49 <@smorgan> Which I see as a need for a blacklist 12:49 <@cl> people complained forever about how much the cookie dialog sucked until we mostly fixed it 12:50 <@ardissone|away> i think we need to do what smorgan suggests 12:51 <@cl> and we haven't heard a thing since. I think paralleling that UI for popup blocking is smart. 12:51 <@ardissone|away> it's at worst an incremental improvement towards a complete, good solution 12:51 <@smorgan> The checkbox may well look really bizarre is the biggest issue 12:51 <@cl> It uses an analogy that people area already used to. 12:51 <@pinkerton> can we get some mockups? i'm just afraid it'll be really cluttered 12:52 <@froodian> ok, let's try to get mockups and talk about it next week 12:52 <@cl> sounds good 12:52 <@froodian> good meeting everybody, fix bugs! ;) 12:52 <@cl> wait one second 12:52 <@cl> that leaves bug 350733 :-p 12:52 < thebot> cl: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=350733 enh, --, ---, email@example.com, UNCO, Make cmd/shift modifiers work on items in the back/forward button menus 12:52 <@froodian> let's talk about that next week 12:52 <@froodian> since it's not 1.1 12:52 <@froodian> and it's late 12:52 <@cl> grr 12:53 <@froodian> you shoulda wikiid it ;) 12:53 <@ardissone|away> i don't see it on the agenda :P 12:53 <@pinkerton> heh 12:54 <@cl> well, there's no reason it *shouldn't* be 1.1 if we decide to do it. 12:57 <@ardissone|away> well, let's discuss it next week 13:02 <@ardissone|away> good meeting everyone; go fix bugs :) 13:03 <@murph> have a good one guys.