Status Meetings:2007-07-11:Log

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[12:00pm] cl: was just about to /invite mento
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[12:01pm] mento: woulda been futile, i just connected 
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[12:03pm] ardissone|away: no pink today?
[12:03pm] peeja|wiihunter: lunch with the folks
[12:03pm] peeja|wiihunter: so no
[12:03pm] ardissone|away: let's wait a few for smorgan
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[12:05pm] mento: ah, i was just gonna go smorgan-hunting
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[12:06pm] ardissone|food: ok
[12:06pm] ardissone|food: everybody open http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2007-07-11:Agenda in your Camino
[12:07pm] ardissone|food: 1.5 still looks pretty good
[12:08pm] ardissone|food: tho we have a new entry in topcrashers this week
[12:08pm] peeja|wiihunter: ooh
[12:08pm] ardissone|food: "GetAvailableBoundsForMenu"
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: our biggest problem, or most prominent one, with 1.5
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: has been ML
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: the latest is portugese doesn't work at least on 10.3
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: so we're going to get a v3 ML build up and hopefully announce that before more issues are discovered 
[12:10pm] mento: what was wrong with pt?
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: and that should hold us until 1.5.1
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: "Brazilian Portugese" is not a valid .lproj name on 10.3
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: only "Portugese" or pt, pt_PT, pt_BR
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: Gecko 1.8.1.5 was set for late Jul last we checked
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: so we can aim for 1.5.1 then
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: there are a fair number of 1.5.1? bugs, but mostly they won't make it, i think
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: murph fixed the most important one (imo)
[12:13pm] cl: ?
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: js sheets not appearing
[12:14pm] smorgan: mento: if you have a spare sr in you, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=379512 needs an sr
[12:14pm] smorgan: That should be in 1.5.1
[12:14pm] smorgan: I can bug pink if necessary
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: oh, right
[12:15pm] mento: smorgan: looks ok, looks brute-force
[12:15pm] ardissone|food: we have to beg for approval on that, too 
[12:15pm] smorgan: mento: it is, but it's safety we should have. josh did the same to trunk already
[12:15pm] mento: this is widget code, i can't really sr it
[12:15pm] smorgan: ah, okay
[12:16pm] mento: i can moa it but you've already got josh
[12:16pm] smorgan: I'll pester pink then
[12:16pm] mento: oh wait, on the branch, it's camino-only
[12:16pm] mento: we can make it fit
[12:17pm] mento: sr=me
[12:17pm] ardissone|food: 1.0.6
[12:18pm] ardissone|food:
[12:18pm] smorgan: hides
[12:18pm] ardissone|food: smorgan's got the fix
[12:18pm] ardissone|food: it's all ready
[12:18pm] smorgan: I'll land that today
[12:18pm] ardissone|food: we need some relnote text
[12:18pm] mento: looks like there's gonna be a gecko 1.8.0.13?
[12:18pm] smorgan: it's not a minibranch, right?
[12:19pm] ardissone|food: well...
[12:19pm] ardissone|food: 1.0.x is all ultimately a minibranch
[12:19pm] mento: smorgan: land it on 1_8_0 and we'll figure out what to do if we need to reopen the minibranch
[12:19pm] smorgan: k
[12:19pm] ardissone|food: yeah, discuss with mento 
[12:19pm] mento: chickens are the most important, and 1_8_0's the only place we'll get a tinderbuild for testing
[12:20pm] ardissone|food: and poor wme can start using it
[12:20pm] smorgan: Yeah, we definitely need to have a 10.3 make sure there's no other stupidity
[12:20pm] mento: now, there've been some 1_8_0 chickens for 1.8.0.13
[12:20pm] ardissone|food: really?
[12:20pm] mento: there won't be a corresponding firefox release
[12:20pm] mento: but they're still taking security fixes for gecko
[12:21pm] ardissone|food: so will there be a Gecko 1.8.0.13?
[12:21pm] mento: i don't know if they'll update config/milestone.txt, but they're tracking them in bugzilla with approved1.8.0.13
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: anything relevant for us?
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: the other side is that keychain breakage is pretty major
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: and that a sooner-than-later release seems better
[12:22pm] mento: i saw js chickens yesterday
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: k
[12:24pm] mento: we definitely want to do the keychain thing
[12:24pm] mento: but the timing might be right to pick up a few extra gecko fixes too
[12:24pm] ardissone|food: ok
[12:25pm] ardissone|food: we can discuss that more later
[12:25pm] ardissone|food: 1.6
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: hopefully everyone has now seen the green tinderboxen
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: so let's give mento a big hand
[12:26pm] mento: those are trunk, but thanks 
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: mozilla/camino is now open for chickens again
[12:27pm] ardissone|food: (well, our tree was closed altogether)
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[12:27pm] ardissone|food: so we can start fixing bugs and REVIEWING again 
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[12:28pm] cl: yeah, thank you very much, Mark.
[12:28pm] ardissone|food: [12:27pm] ardissone|food: so we can start fixing bugs and REVIEWING again 
[12:28pm] mento: talkback/trunk's broken (387680) but we're stil green
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: no sam yet, so skipping the meetup followup up
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: both peeja|wiihunter and jeff are getting their first patches reviewed
[12:31pm] jeff: still waiting on a second review then sr
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: peeja finally blogged about the AS project
[12:31pm] peeja|wiihunter: mines ready for a checkin
[12:31pm] peeja|wiihunter: bug 385989
[12:31pm] cl: now that mento fixed that bug, I can pull a fresh tree and start reviewing again, too.
[12:31pm] mento: sorry it took so long 
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: jeff keeps cranking out the pretty pictures
[12:32pm] cl: no worries, I've been limping along -- still am -- on half a computer anyway
[12:32pm] smorgan: I guess I need to do all the checkins.... where are the froodians of yesteryear?
[12:32pm] cl: my internal hard drive shat itself recently and I'm still running off the external at this point
[12:32pm] ardissone|food: working in a no-outside-internet office 
[12:32pm] ardissone|food: we need more college students 
[12:33pm] ardissone|food: (with cvs privs)
[12:33pm] jeff: tabspose is getting to the awkward phase right before it starts getting animations and pimples
[12:33pm] cl: once I get a tree back up, I could do chickens too if someone will support me for chicken rights
[12:33pm] cl: just to take some of the burden of smorgan, who surely has better things to do.
[12:33pm] cl: s/of/off
[12:34pm] ardissone|food: anyone have anything else before we move on to bugs?
[12:34pm] cl: I don't.
[12:34pm] mento: tbxn.  i want to talk to ss
[12:35pm] mento: but i think we're ok to move the release from maya to cb-x1
[12:35pm] cl: in theory he's back today, I think.
[12:35pm] ardissone|food: probably late today
[12:35pm] cl: if not today, probably tomorrow
[12:35pm] mento: to facilitate moving maya
[12:35pm] smorgan: I have a new trunk project file mostly done, and I'll do branch shortly
[12:35pm] mento: and decommissioning the rest
[12:35pm] smorgan: One that won't hork newer version of Xcode
[12:35pm] mento: if anyone has any complaints about switching the releases to cb-x1, voice 'em now
[12:35pm] mento: or tell me later.  i'm going to lunch.
[12:36pm] cl: haha
[12:36pm] cl: enjoy
[12:36pm] cl: oh, I guess I have one thing
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[12:36pm] cl: where are we on getting the mission statement and assorted related things up on a user-facing site?
[12:36pm] ardissone|food: that's sam's meetup followup stuff
[12:36pm] jeff: yea when are the meetup things gonna be online
[12:36pm] cl: ok.
[12:36pm] cl: I wasn't sure if that fell into that category or not.
[12:37pm] ardissone|food: yeah
[12:37pm] cl: because it would be nice to have something to point people to who make ridiculous requests on feedback, although we seem to be seeing a lot less of that lately
[12:37pm] cl: OK, that's fine then. We can move on to bugs now.
[12:37pm] ardissone|food: Bug 386915
[12:37pm] thebot: ardissone|food: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=386915 nor, --, ---, alqahira@ardisson.org, NEW, Display a warning dialogue at launch on 10.3 after bug 385221
[12:38pm] ardissone|food: the clean (and workable) way is to set LSMin... to 10.4
[12:38pm] ardissone|food: but it's buggy on 10.3
[12:38pm] ardissone|food: so it shows no dialogue, just silently prevents running
[12:39pm] ardissone|food: so we're in a situation where sane options are that or crashing at startup
[12:39pm] ardissone|food: "is crashing at startup is better than not launching without any feedback?"
[12:39pm] cl: actually, here's an idea
[12:39pm] cl: is there a way we could adapt the general theory behind bug 355884 to this?
[12:39pm] thebot: cl: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=355884 enh, --, ---, nobody@mozilla.org, NEW, Display dialog when Camino is run from its disk image.
[12:40pm] cl: for instance, display a dialog when the disk image is opened on <= 10.3
[12:40pm] cl: that says "Hey, this version of Camino isn't going to work on your machine"
[12:40pm] thebot: Build 'Linux hoshi Depend (1.1)' has dropped from the 'Mozilla1.8-SeaMonkey' tinderbox.
[12:40pm] ardissone|food: that still has us running
[12:40pm] ardissone|food: or crashing
[12:40pm] cl: no, display the dialog right when the disk image is mounted
[12:40pm] smorgan: There's no way to do that
[12:41pm] cl: oh, ok. never mind then 
[12:41pm] smorgan: The only other option is a bootstrap binary, and that's more pain than I think it's worth
[12:41pm] cl: is that what mento was referring to in that last comment?
[12:41pm] smorgan: yes
[12:41pm] ardissone|food: yeah
[12:42pm] ardissone|food: i also think crashing on startup is dumb
[12:42pm] ardissone|food: "these people didn't pay enough attention to their app"
[12:42pm] smorgan: Yeah, I'm not clear on why mento thought there was a decision to be made between crashing or not
[12:42pm] ardissone|food: ok 
[12:42pm] ardissone|food: so we'll silently fail to start 
[12:43pm] cl: Is there any way we can detect the failure has occurred?
[12:43pm] ardissone|food: we have a slew of UNCOs that need some yea/nay action
[12:43pm] ardissone|food: Bug 385791
[12:43pm] thebot: ardissone|food: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=385791 enh, --, ---, nobody@mozilla.org, UNCO, Context-menu (Google) search should open in new tab/window
[12:44pm] cl: Nay
[12:44pm] ardissone|food: i think this breaks the whole paradigm, so i'm opposed
[12:44pm] cl: agreed.
[12:44pm] ardissone|food: we should just fix the cmd-click before opening issue 
[12:45pm] cl: stuart, you had voiced a possible reason to support that bug, though.
[12:45pm] cl: namely, the fact that View Source does basically what that bug is asking for
[12:45pm] ardissone|food: oh, we were going to wait for pink on this one two meetings ago
[12:45pm] smorgan: I don't particularly care
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[12:45pm] ardissone|food: cool
[12:45pm] pinkerton: figured i missed everything
[12:46pm] cl: pink just got here, so he can now hand down an opinion from on high 
[12:46pm] pinkerton: heh
[12:46pm] pinkerton: blue, no green!
[12:46pm] cl: orange.
[12:46pm] smorgan: pinkerton: yes green!
[12:46pm] ardissone|food: Bug 385791
[12:46pm] cl: definitely orange.
[12:46pm] smorgan: mento saved us
[12:46pm] thebot: ardissone|food: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=385791 enh, --, ---, nobody@mozilla.org, UNCO, Context-menu (Google) search should open in new tab/window
[12:46pm] ardissone|food: yes, green is very good
[12:47pm] pinkerton: it seems to me that re-using the same window/tab destroys the context of what you were looking at when you want to come back to it
[12:48pm] pinkerton: at least in the 90% cas
[12:48pm] pinkerton: e
[12:48pm] cl: but *do* you want to come back to it?
[12:48pm] ardissone|food: we already have a way to prevent that
[12:48pm] pinkerton: i think the default should probably be to open in a new tab
[12:48pm] ardissone|food: and it's no different than using the toolbar search field
[12:48pm] pinkerton: yeah, you're looking up a word, probably because it's something interesting, not because it's your final destination
[12:49pm] smorgan: Right, I see it as more analagous to the dictionary shortcut that we don't support
[12:49pm] pinkerton: right, that' what i was thinking
[12:49pm] smorgan: Which is why I can see the argument for a new tab/window
[12:49pm] pinkerton: right
[12:50pm] pinkerton: my gut is that new wind/tab should be the default there
[12:50pm] ardissone|food: what if you default to new tabs in bg? are we going to ignore that, also?
[12:50pm] ardissone|food: s/also//
[12:50pm] pinkerton: hrm, was thinking about that
[12:50pm] pinkerton: my guess is that we should respect that
[12:50pm] pinkerton: since it's like clicking on a link to open something up for later perusal
[12:51pm] smorgan: Unless you need to know right away what it is, in which case it's the opposite
[12:51pm] ardissone|food: in that case, why not just make same tab default and use cmd-click to later perusal
[12:51pm] ardissone|food: heh
[12:51pm] thebot: Just appeared in Planet Mozilla - http://planet.mozilla.org/ : 
[12:52pm] peeja|wiihunter: does it look like the modifier-before-context-menu-opens bug will ever be fixed?
[12:52pm] smorgan: Does anyone here ever use that menu item?
[12:52pm] peeja|wiihunter: no
[12:52pm] thebot: AllPeers: Mozpad Meeting 2007-07-18
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[12:52pm] ardissone|food: slaps thebot
[12:52pm] thebot: Yikes! I'm being attacked!!
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[12:53pm] ardissone|food: peeja|wiihunter: it's a matter of time to port that menu to code, iirc
[12:54pm] peeja|wiihunter: because shift can toggle that behavior
[12:54pm] ardissone|food: s/matter of time/matter of having the time/
[12:54pm] peeja|wiihunter: and it's probably acceptable until that bug's fixed
[12:54pm] smorgan: So shall we just say new tab/window, honor backrgound pref, and see what people think?
[12:55pm] peeja|wiihunter: aye
[12:55pm] cl: sounds reasonable to me, I guess
[12:55pm] smorgan: Since none of us apparently use it, there's no down-side no matter what we pick 
[12:55pm] ardissone|food: path of least resistance 
[12:55pm] cl: yeah, this is true.
[12:56pm] ardissone|food: well, the downside is breaking consistency
[12:56pm] ardissone|food: but sure
[12:56pm] cl: I just think it's interesting that this is literally the first time we've ever had feedback about it
[12:56pm] pinkerton: yup
[12:56pm] pinkerton: heh
[12:56pm] cl: which suggests that either most of our users *also* aren't using it, or that they prefer it the way it is.
[12:56pm] smorgan: ardissone|food: with what though? There's only one other thing in the menu that opens something, and it doesn't use the same tabs
[12:57pm] ardissone|food: with the rest of the UI as a whole
[12:57pm] ardissone|food: v-s being the sole exception
[12:58pm] smorgan: Well, we'll give it a try and see if anyone objects
[12:58pm] ardissone|food: let's do Bug 384689 really quickly
[12:58pm] smorgan: And if there are masses of people using  it who love the current behavior, we'll know soon enough
[12:58pm] thebot: ardissone|food: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384689 enh, --, ---, nobody@mozilla.org, UNCO, Switch inline autofill pref from NSUserDefaults to browser.urlbar.autoFill
[12:59pm] cl: like I asked, is there any compelling reason *not* to do that?
[12:59pm] ardissone|food: we should do that, i think
[12:59pm] pinkerton: because we want to move stuff out of gecko rather than into gecko?
[12:59pm] cl: other than "we don't want to use that pref any more anyway"
[12:59pm] smorgan: pinkerton: let's not do that piecemeal with prefs
[1:00pm] smorgan: If/when we switch, we need a solution for all prefs
[1:00pm] smorgan: having one more won't hurt
[1:00pm] pinkerton: sounds ok
[1:00pm] ardissone|food: that's the only(?) pref that's not done using prefs.js, and it's wacky
[1:00pm] ardissone|food: ok
[1:00pm] ardissone|food: it's 1pm now
[1:01pm] ardissone|food: the r queue is really high, so do reviews
[1:01pm] ardissone|food: pink should look at his sr queue soon-ish, too 
[1:01pm] smorgan: Also a bunch of old sr's, if anyone here is an sr
[1:01pm] pinkerton: heh
[1:01pm] smorgan: jinx 
[1:01pm] ardissone|food: hehe
[1:01pm] pinkerton: nobody's been poking me!
[1:01pm] smorgan: Trunk was red
[1:01pm] smorgan: So I didn't bother
[1:01pm] smorgan: now I am
[1:01pm] ardissone|food: pinkerton: consider yourself poked 
[1:02pm] pinkerton: gotcha
[1:02pm] ardissone|food: and everyone else, please also fix bugs
[1:02pm] You kicked thebot from the chat room. (ardissone|food)
[1:03pm] ardissone|food: have a good week!
[1:03pm] cl: guess we'll kick the rest of that list to next week's agenda?
[1:03pm] cl: let me know when you have an outline of the agenda up, smokey
[1:04pm] ardissone|food: probably tonight
[1:04pm] cl: k, i just wanted to add bug 366391 to it while i was thinking about it
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