Status Meetings:2009-07-22:Log

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[11:56am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv.
[11:56am] You changed the topic to "http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2009-07-22:Agenda".
[11:56am] dan was promoted to operator by you.
[11:56am] kreeger was promoted to operator by you.
[12:02pm] hendy joined the chat room.
[12:02pm] hendy was promoted to operator by you.
[12:03pm] murph joined the chat room.
[12:03pm] pinkerton joined the chat room.
[12:03pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:03pm] murph was promoted to operator by you.
[12:03pm] ardissone: we'll give smorgan a few
[12:09pm] smorgan joined the chat room.
[12:09pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you.
[12:09pm] ardissone: ok
[12:09pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:10pm] smorgan: Sorry I'm late
[12:10pm] ardissone: everyone open your 2.0b3 or newer to http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2009-07-22:Agenda
[12:10pm] ardissone: smorgan: pinkerton just wanted to make you look bad to cover for the sr queue 
[12:11pm] ardissone: on the b3 front
[12:11pm] pinkerton: k. really really busy
[12:11pm] ardissone:
[12:11pm] ardissone: there's nothing new in the crashes, really
[12:12pm] ardissone: bp-bae34d3f-748c-463e-98d6-c9eca2090714 possibly a new variant in the _objc_error crash
[12:12pm] ardissone: fewer crashes last week, but the crashes are becoming more and more varied
[12:12pm] ardissone: so go figure
[12:13pm] ardissone: (random flash crashes are down to only 20% of b3 crashes  )
[12:13pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on b3?
[12:14pm] ardissone: ok
[12:15pm] ardissone: the b4 update is that we've made some movement, but it doesn't look like we'll be ready to freeze next week 
[12:16pm] ardissone: 1.6.x
[12:16pm] ardissone: the topcrashes for 1.6.8 haven't changed yet again
[12:17pm] ardissone: although Flash Player is just 27% of the crashes now
[12:17pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 1.6.x?
[12:18pm] ardissone: anyone else as tired of hearing about 1.6.x (Gecko 1.8.1) bugs as me? 
[12:18pm] smorgan: Oooh ooh, me me
[12:18pm] ardissone:
[12:19pm] ardissone: most of the bugs we're getting reported by users are Gecko 1.8.1-only bugs 
[12:20pm] ardissone: which, as you all know, is awesome technology…for 2006
[12:20pm] ardissone: now on to awesome technology for 2009!
[12:21pm] ardissone: dan: SoC update!
[12:21pm] dan: well, there are a lot of new complains. I have about 13 bugs assigned to me  
[12:22pm] smorgan: Many of them aren't complaints, just opportunities for more improvement 
[12:22pm] pinkerton: bbiab food
[12:22pm] ardissone: (a bunch of those are follow-ups identified in the the first reviews, not complaints  )
[12:22pm] ardissone: but yes, you accounted for most of the new bugs the past week 
[12:23pm] dan: Right now I'm focusing on the one that bugs me the most--redirected URLs
[12:23pm] dan: those stupid pseudo protocols is my last priority  
[12:23pm] ardissone: hehe
[12:24pm] ardissone: yeah, redirects is the most jarring thing, i think
[12:24pm] dan: I am making good progress on that.
[12:24pm] ardissone:
[12:24pm] dan: But I was hoping to get a minute to get some feedback on my new sort algorithm
[12:25pm] ardissone: k
[12:25pm] dan: It's basically (visit count) * (last visit) + pathBoost + typedBoost
[12:26pm] dan: Where last visit is assigned a score based on how recent it was
[12:26pm] smorgan: I would say visit count >> last visit
[12:26pm] smorgan: What's pathBoost?
[12:27pm] dan: pathBoost is a boost given to URLs that end in "/"
[12:27pm] dan: typedBoost is a boost given to URLs that were typed, obviously
[12:27pm] smorgan: What's the rationale for pathBoost?
[12:27pm] dan: Well, it was part of the old autocomplete sort
[12:28pm] dan: It gives www.mozilla.com priority over www.mozilla.com/help
[12:28pm] ardissone: preferring site main pages to some random page on site
[12:28pm] dan: yes
[12:28pm] dan: that wasn't a good example
[12:28pm] ardissone: no, it wasn't 
[12:28pm] ardissone: since help/ will have one
[12:28pm] dan: it's a matter of web paths vs. web pages
[12:28pm] smorgan: I'm just not clear on why paths are magic
[12:29pm] dan: so mozilla.com/ will get priority over mozilla.com/help.html
[12:29pm] dan: the idea in the old bug was that the main page is going to be more important than some random page
[12:29pm] smorgan: But it could just as easily be mozilla.com/help/
[12:29pm] ardissone: i think it gives a better "look-and-feel" to a list; i don't know whether it's useful
[12:30pm] smorgan: If that's the goal, then it seems like "no path" or "shorter" would be a better indicator
[12:30pm] dan: it does make it look better. And it only gives a slight boost so that if there are a bunch of pages from one domain, the top-level one shows up first
[12:30pm] ardissone: it means my hits for ardisson.org would be www.ardisson.org www.ardisson.org/afkar/ and then www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/perf.html?size=50&days=2&avg=1&autoscale=1 instead of the latter being first
[12:31pm] ardissone: that also probably makes arrowing down and typing more easier
[12:32pm] dan: Anyway, it's nothing I would have thought of, but it was included in the previous autocomplete sort
[12:32pm] ardissone: e.g., i can left-arrow to add more to that path
[12:32pm] ardissone: which i think is more important now that we only have 5 results
[12:33pm] smorgan: Probably the only way to really know is to try and see how it works with real data
[12:33pm] ardissone: (vs left-arrow and a lot of backspacing)
[12:33pm] smorgan: (the whole algorithm, not just this part)
[12:33pm] dan: well, I almost have a patch for it up, so I'll wait for more feedback then
[12:34pm] dan: There was a lot of philosophical debate about this back in the day
[12:34pm] ardissone: how do titles fit in?
[12:34pm] ardissone: we evaluate their urls?
[12:35pm] ardissone: or, the urls for things that have matches in their titles?
[12:35pm] dan: I'm confused
[12:35pm] dan: titles are not taken into account in the sorting
[12:36pm] ardissone: ok, that's what i was asking
[12:36pm] smorgan: dan: probably one of the best indicators for a good match is having picked the item before for the same querry
[12:36pm] dan: hmm, yes, that's true. I will play around with that idea
[12:37pm] smorgan: That's probably something to tackle separately from the basic core sort algorithm, but it's a very good way to make it learn the right result
[12:37pm] dan: another bug  
[12:37pm] ardissone: welcome to development 
[12:37pm] smorgan: Another opportunity for enhancement you mean
[12:38pm] dan: well, that's about it then
[12:38pm] ardissone: ok
[12:39pm] ardissone: please try also to blog about at least the landed stuff before i do my every-two-weeks roundup this weekend 
[12:40pm] ardissone: also we'll need to keep kicking ss until the feed is up on caminoplanet 
[12:40pm] dan: yes! Now that the blog is a little more....functional, I will definitely write more!
[12:40pm] ardissone: tosses a tomato in jeff;s direction
[12:40pm] ardissone:
[12:40pm] ardissone: ok
[12:40pm] ardissone: 2.0 stuff
[12:41pm] ardissone: smorgan: breakpad bugs are dwindling; the big thing left is URLs, I think 
[12:41pm] ardissone: how about josh's key thingy?
[12:42pm] smorgan: ardissone: still haven't done that; started looking at URLs
[12:42pm] smorgan: Although it's not entirely clear how to test it 
[12:43pm] ardissone: heh
[12:43pm] ardissone: file bugs against somewhere on the reports
[12:43pm] ardissone: which is, uh, silly, but....
[12:44pm] ardissone: unless ss has a better idea, that's what MoCo does to get urls out of reports
[12:45pm] ardissone: jeff's still not here; hendy pointed out a tweet that implied he was going to work on his bugs on monday 
[12:46pm] ardissone: murph: phishing, fonts, other stuff?
[12:46pm] murph: for the phishing bar, and your bug about the blocking bar not appearing because the URL expired, I'm working on a slight refactor of the how we remember ignored blocked sites to more cleanly work around that situation
[12:48pm] ardissone: ok
[12:48pm] cl joined the chat room.
[12:48pm] pinkerton: oh, did you folks talk about the email gerv sent to caminofeedback?
[12:48pm] ardissone: where is the menuitem bug?
[12:48pm] cl: gerv sent something to feedback?
[12:48pm] ardissone: pinkerton: what mail?
[12:48pm] pinkerton: he was asking for a "state of the union" for oscon and i thought it was nice he asked us for status
[12:49pm] cl: is still not subscribed to feedback
[12:49pm] cl: ss: you wanna fix that?
[12:49pm] ardissone: that was nice
[12:49pm] pinkerton: what things should i put on the list?
[12:49pm] pinkerton: soc student, about to ship 2.0b4, ...?
[12:49pm] ardissone: "camino is still digging out from the weight of having its widget toolkit stolen" 
[12:50pm] pinkerton:
[12:50pm] ardissone: yeah, autocomplete
[12:51pm] pinkerton: k, i'll make some other stuff up
[12:51pm] ardissone: you can talk about some of the features in 2.0 that have actually landed, like tabsposé
[12:52pm] pinkerton: that requires remembering what wasn't in 1.x 
[12:52pm] ardissone: but not those that depend on the good graces of your employer
[12:52pm] pinkerton: i guess the beta site has a list, eh?
[12:52pm] ardissone: mhm
[12:52pm] ardissone: growl
[12:52pm] ardissone: people love growl 
[12:52pm] pinkerton: how strange 
[12:53pm] hendy: full content zoom!
[12:53pm] smorgan: finds the emai
[12:53pm] smorgan: It says 5 minutes for all of Mozilla
[12:53pm] smorgan: I think we proabably don't need an exhaustive list
[12:53pm] ardissone: heh
[12:53pm] ardissone: 4 minutes for MoCo, 1 minute for everything else 
[12:54pm] ardissone: well, a couple of signature features to-be-in-2.0 sounds reasonable
[12:54pm] pinkerton: yeah, i wanted to make sure i gave him something
[12:54pm] pinkerton: again because he was kind enough to ask
[12:54pm] ardissone:
[12:55pm] pinkerton: i'll reply later today
[12:55pm] ardissone: cool
[12:55pm] ardissone: murph: back to you, where is the menu item patch?
[12:55pm] pinkerton: (sorry to interrupt) 
[12:55pm] murph: oh for reporting you mean?
[12:55pm] ardissone: pinkerton: np, that's what project leads do 
[12:55pm] ardissone: murph: yeah
[12:56pm] ardissone: it's not in a queue, and it's the last big piece before turning on...
[12:56pm] murph: I'm actually waiting on hendy's patch to get checked in, as I'm going to use the isBlockedOverlayShowing method as part of menu validation...
[12:56pm] ardissone: ah, ok
[12:56pm] ardissone: and that's in pinkerton's sr queue
[12:56pm] murph: but other than that, the patch is ready to go, so it will be in right after his patch gets in
[12:57pm] ardissone: sounds good
[12:57pm] ardissone: ss: have you chatted with SearchCo lately about what they want before they turn us on?
[12:57pm] murph: yeah so I'll make sure to get that in asap, as I'm excited for the day when we'll be able to turn on safe browsing 
[12:58pm] ardissone:
[12:58pm] ardissone: on to hendy so he can go back to sleep 
[12:58pm] ardissone: hendy: utf-8 and zoom changes?
[12:59pm] hendy: priority is to get a new patch for text zoom only done
[12:59pm] hendy: then back to utf-8. i've got the technique pretty much sorted now; just a lot of cleanup to do.
[12:59pm] hendy: i also want to get on to some of the nobody@mozilla.org i10n bugs
[1:00pm] ardissone: k
[1:00pm] ardissone: should do a pass and make sure they're all still there and ours 
[1:01pm] ardissone: sounds good
[1:01pm] cl was promoted to operator by you.
[1:01pm] ardissone: i've been hacking on the safebrowisng overlay UI some
[1:02pm] ardissone: philippe and i got new/fixed icons in
[1:02pm] ardissone: markus had some more questions about Gecko strings i need to get back to
[1:02pm] ardissone: cl: anything from you?
[1:03pm] cl: uh
[1:03pm] cl: i got nothin.
[1:03pm] ardissone: k
[1:03pm] cl: i mean, i have a bunch, but it's after  1
[1:03pm] ardissone: anyone else have anything on 2.0/b4 (besides "ship it"  )
[1:03pm] smorgan: Yes
[1:03pm] smorgan: I had completely forgotten about https://bug401340.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=316155
[1:03pm] ardissone: no status updates, i meant?
[1:04pm] smorgan: Oh, not a status update, sorry
[1:04pm] ardissone: no, that was for cl, sorry
[1:04pm] ardissone: that's the darker bm bar?
[1:04pm] smorgan: Yes, and tabs a bit
[1:04pm] smorgan: Does anyone *not* think we should just do that?
[1:05pm] smorgan: pinkerton: ^^^
[1:05pm] ardissone: do we have a smfr bookmark bar shot?
[1:05pm] smorgan: https://bug401340.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=316158
[1:05pm] ardissone: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=401340 for everyone at home
[1:06pm] ardissone: is that going to be a 10.5-only set of changes?
[1:06pm] smorgan: It would just change our current 10.5-only stuff
[1:06pm] pinkerton: reads
[1:06pm] ardissone: and the tabs?
[1:07pm] smorgan: Well, I guess the tabs would be for all platforms
[1:07pm] smorgan: But that's a very minor change, and should look fine I would think
[1:08pm] ardissone: i'm a little concerned with the tabs, especially for 10.4
[1:09pm] smorgan: What about them?
[1:10pm] ardissone: the active one looks less well in the smfr-bar
[1:10pm] pinkerton: i like it, i think it looks ok. unsure about how it'll look on 10.4
[1:10pm] ardissone: (and i don't have 10.4 screenshots)
[1:11pm] ardissone: could we load different images on 10.4 if we needed to?
[1:11pm] smorgan: Sure
[1:12pm] ardissone: let's commission some 10.4 screenshots, with the idea of using this on 10.5 and separate images on 10.4 if needed?
[1:12pm] ardissone: (since the bmbar is already 10.5/10.4 split)
[1:13pm] smorgan: sure
[1:13pm] smorgan: Or we could land it, and then revisit 10.4 if necessary
[1:13pm] ardissone: (i personally don't like the darker bmbar as much, but apparently most people don't like the lighter bar we borrowed from the OS  )
[1:14pm] ardissone: ok, as long as we do revisit it 
[1:14pm] smorgan: I find the three different tones distracting, more and more over time
[1:14pm] smorgan: These screenshots feel more like just two
[1:14pm] ardissone: mhm
[1:15pm] ardissone: make it so?
[1:15pm] smorgan: pinkerton: so sr=you to land as is (module making the tab images taller)
[1:15pm] smorgan: ?
[1:15pm] pinkerton: k
[1:16pm] ardissone: oh, these are pre-taller tabs?
[1:16pm] ardissone: heh
[1:16pm] ardissone: pre-Google site icon 2, even 
[1:16pm] smorgan: Yeah, it sat for a year
[1:16pm] smorgan: Not sure how it fell off our radar
[1:16pm] ardissone:
[1:17pm] ardissone: people stopped complaining?
[1:17pm] smorgan: pinkerton: while I'm getting sr's... https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505601#c0
[1:17pm] pinkerton: i'll try to get there later. really busy.
[1:17pm] ardissone: anyway, a quick wrapup: the r queue is at its lowest level in ages; i'm not sure if that means we're finally doing a good job of emptying it, or if we're doing a bad job of filling it
[1:18pm] ardissone: if the former, good job everyone!
[1:18pm] smorgan: pinkerton: this you just have to read the comment and either say "okay" or "wait wait, what about X?"
[1:18pm] ardissone: if the latter, write more patches! ;)
[1:19pm] pinkerton: fine
[1:19pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else?
[1:20pm] ardissone: anyone still here? ;)
[1:20pm] ardissone: ok, everyone have a good week, keep working on those 2.0b4 bugs/patches/reviews :)
[1:22pm] cl: hands pinkerton tea, earl grey, hot
[1:22pm] pinkerton: mmm
[1:22pm] pinkerton left the chat room.
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