Status Meetings:2010-10-27:Log

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Log from #camino-mtg starting 2010-10-27 15:40:09 -0400

Link to a time in the log by using a URL like http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2010-10-27:Log#12:00

15:40  » ardissone was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
15:40  » ardissone changed the topic to "http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2010-10-27:Agenda".
15:57  » chrispet joined the chat room.
15:57  » chrispet is now known as cpeterso.
15:59  » ilya joined the chat room.
16:01  » cpeterso was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:01  » ilya was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:01 ardissone: cpeterso: hi!
16:01 cpeterso: howdy
16:01 ardissone: thanks for all the hacking you've been doing :)
16:02 cpeterso: thx. Just keeping myself busy. :)
16:02 ardissone: ilya: do you know if pink's coming?
16:02 ardissone: assumes you're in that channel already ;)
16:03 ardissone: smorgan said he had a meeting today
16:03 ilya: pink's not in the chromium channel either
16:03 ardissone: ok
16:03 ardissone: so i guess no pink either :(
16:04 ardissone: i guess we'll get started
16:04 ardissone: http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2010-10-27:Agenda
16:05 ardissone: we should give cpeterso a rousing Camino welcome :)
16:05 ardissone: which would be more rousing if there were more than three live bodies
16:07 ilya: tips his hat, stomps, cheers
16:07 ardissone: gets sauron to blink his giant eye
16:07 sauron: blinks
16:07 cpeterso: or wink? can't tell. :)
16:07 ardissone: (sauron is me on the MBP)
16:07 ardissone:  :)
16:08 ardissone: (for reasons that are too long to go into here)
16:08 ardissone: so, yesterday we released 2.0.5
16:08 ardissone: the bad news is we shipped a JEP that broke Yahoo games and pogo.com :(
16:09 ardissone: that escaped Mozilla QA, too :P
16:09 ardissone: but our users discovered it within hours
16:09 cpeterso: JEP=?
16:09 ardissone: Java embeddding Plugin
16:09 ardissone: the thing that lets Gecko browsers use Java > 1.3.x
16:10 cpeterso: does mozilla have a fix ETA?
16:10 ardissone: not yet
16:10 ardissone: it's a semi-thrird party product
16:11 ardissone: steven michaud develops it; he's a MoCo contractor
16:12 ardissone: hmm, looks like Steven can't repro on 10.5 for some reason
16:12 ardissone: i'll get back to him after the meeting
16:12 ardissone: but it'll be a while, probably :(
16:12 ardissone: the buggy JEP fixes a major security hole, so we can't really recommend users go back to 2.0.4 or downgrade
16:13 ardissone: On the good news front
16:13 ardissone: the new flash-check is showing some positive results
16:13 ardissone: stuart did some quick checking today
16:14 ardissone: the latest flash version's gone from 30% of Camino 2.0.x users on cbo on Monday to 39% today
16:14 ardissone: and Flash 10.0r45 is dropping
16:14 cpeterso: I'm actually an engineer on Adobe's Flash Player team (though I work on Android and Linux, not Mac).
16:14 cpeterso: So that's great news to my ears. <:)
16:15 ardissone: so we're both getting 10.1 users to upgrade to latest, and 10.0 users to 10.1
16:15 ardissone:  :)
16:15 ardissone: hopefully it keeps up
16:16 cpeterso: Unfortunately, the Mac engineer says Firefox's Breakpad crash dumps are not very useful for post-mortem debugging. I don't know why.
16:16 cpeterso: But if there is any info or connections on the Flash team that would be helpful to you guys, just let me know.
16:17 ardissone: ok :)
16:17 ardissone: we've hacked around one of the two serious issues
16:18 ardissone: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577567
16:19 ardissone: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541897 is the other one; we really don't know if that's a Gecko bug (special-casing for Firefox and not Camino), or Flash doing something special in Firefox and not Camino
16:20 cpeterso: I can take a look at those bugs or pass them on to an Adobe engineer.
16:22 ardissone: the first one we reported when Flash 10.0 came out and then hacked around; it would be nice to have a fix, but it's not critical
16:22 ardissone: the second one, the more eyes the better
16:22 ardissone: Stuart is swamped right now, and it's going to require deep debugging :(
16:23 ardissone: although since someone mentioned Silverlight, I guess that mostly rules out Flash…
16:23 ardissone: and rules in Gecko :P
16:24 ardissone: at any rate
16:24 ardissone: thanks :)
16:24 cpeterso: When do you expect to release 2.0.6? Right after JEP fix?
16:25 ardissone: it depends
16:25 ardissone: if we get lots of complaints from users about the broken games, yes
16:25 ardissone: if not, when we have a couple of bugs to ride along
16:26 ardissone: (to prevent update fatigue and updates with "little perceived value")
16:26 ardissone: also depending on where we are with 2.1a1
16:27 ardissone: the big 2.0.x crash is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=512730
16:27 ardissone: it's the worst crash in Camino code we've had probably since I've been around
16:27 cpeterso: When 2.1.a1 is eventually released, will there be more alphas or a beta before 2.1 final?
16:27 ardissone: probably just b1
16:28 ardissone: depends on how fast we can get the rest of the autocomplete bugs fixed, and any other regressions that are major
16:28 ardissone: this was supposed to be a "fast" release :P
16:29 ardissone: but the autocomplete rewrite has been quite a drag
16:29 ardissone: and dan was going to come back and work more on it, but he disappeared
16:29 ardissone: we want to get everyone off of Gecko 1.9 as fast as we humanly can :P
16:30 cpeterso: are the autocomplete bugs a1 blockers? or just 2.1?
16:30 ardissone: without making them suffer
16:30 ardissone: the perf issue is a1
16:30 ardissone: and it will only be partly fixed for a1
16:31 ardissone: the rest of it, and some of the other bugs, will be for 2.1/b1
16:31 cpeterso: ok
16:32 ardissone: the 2.1-target and 2.1? lists will be pretty agressively trimmed after a1
16:32 ardissone: (first 2 links in the Camino 2.1 section down under Queries)
16:33 ardissone: we like to have the final beta be feature-complete with all the major bugs fixed
16:33 ardissone: and only small polish things left
16:33 ardissone: we've tried the 1 beta thing several times, and it typically becomes at least 2 :P
16:33 ardissone: but we'll see
16:33 cpeterso: Will Mac OS X 10.4 or PowerPC still be supported for after 2.1?
16:34 ardissone: only if we attempt to do another release off of Gecko 1.9.2
16:34 ardissone: which I don';t think we'll do
16:34 cpeterso: sounds good to me :)
16:35 ardissone: to close out 2.0.5, it looks like for some reason we're seeing some strange stacks in breakpad this time around
16:36 ardissone: where there's a garbage frame below _start and start
16:36 ardissone: and below the garbage frame is -[BrowserWrapper removeTransientBar:display:]
16:37 ardissone: i'll keep an eye on that
16:37 ardissone: anything else on 2.0.5?
16:37 cpeterso: I seem to be the only other live person, but I know nothing about 2.0.5 news. <:)
16:38 ardissone: i've been busy, so I didn't get stats done, so no updates on the 1.6.x scary update for 10.4+ users
16:38 ardissone: hehe
16:38 ardissone: we've mostly covered 2.0.6 already, too
16:39 cpeterso: Will be 1.6 be EOL'd when 2.1 is released?
16:39 ardissone: 1.6 is EOLed
16:39 ardissone: when we released 2.0
16:39 cpeterso: ok
16:40 ardissone: we had a large contingent of people on 10.4+ that stuck there for some reason
16:40 ardissone: and we've been trying to move them off
16:40 ardissone: but that's really the only reason we keep talking about it
16:41 ardissone: On 2.1
16:41 ardissone: we've talked about most of that already
16:41 ardissone: stuart had nothing new on autocomplete
16:42 ardissone: he'll be busy/gone until mid-week next week, so maybe something then
16:42 ardissone: hopefully we can get pink to sr the stuff he has waiting by then :P
16:43 cpeterso: ok. I can try to investigate at some (unassigned) 2.1 blocker bugs.
16:43 ardissone: masayuki's latest Ts regression fix did work
16:43 ardissone:  :)
16:43 cpeterso: Ts=?
16:44 ardissone: Startup time test
16:44 ardissone: http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/perf.html?size=50&days=2&avg=1&autoscale=1
16:44 cpeterso: pretty pictures!
16:44 ardissone: haha
16:45 ardissone: (also on the Ts front, the random Ts hit that cb-x4 took a few months ago just as randomly went away last week :P )
16:46 ardissone: um
16:47 ardissone: lost train of thought
16:48 ardissone: i have a couple of random patches in flight, and i need to finish up the build-system-related things
16:49 ardissone: but last i checked, there was nothing 2.1-specific besides the build stuff i could fix
16:49 ardissone: so i'll keep fixing random bugs as I have time/am able
16:49 ardissone:  :P
16:49 ardissone: i hope to ping murph and hendy later this week
16:49 cpeterso: sounds good.
16:50 ardissone: the review queue is pretty bad right now
16:50 ardissone: it's spread around, but no-one's really moving ;)
16:50 ardissone: cl's going to be gone until early next month
16:51 ardissone: stuart until next week
16:51 ardissone: ilya: any idea when you might be able to get to the one aimed at you?
16:52 cpeterso: suggestion: on the wiki page of reviewers for feature areas, it would be helpful to include the reviewers' bugzilla email address.
16:52 ardissone: mm
16:53 ilya: I'll try to get to it this week
16:53 ardissone: i thought most of the nicks produced unique results
16:53 cpeterso: I don't know everyone, so I sometimes have to find an old bug and copy/paste a particular reviewer's bugzilla email address from there.
16:53 ardissone: ilya: :)
16:54 ardissone: cpeterso: bugzilla completes on names, too
16:54 cpeterso: I will try that. I swear that it wasn't working for me.. :\
16:54 ardissone: k
16:54 ilya: I haven't seen bugzilla complete on anything
16:54 ilya: I just type something into the box and cross my fingers
16:55 ardissone: i'll try to look and see whose nicks listed there aren't unique
16:55 ardissone: really?
16:55 ardissone: is it not hooked up for reviews?
16:55 ilya: I mean, it completes once I submit
16:55 ilya: but there's no dropdown
16:55 ilya: so I just hope that what I've typed is unique enough
16:55 cpeterso: and I think Bugzilla know more than one Ilya.
16:55 ardissone: hrm
16:55 cpeterso: _might know_
16:56 ardissone: you're right, it doesn't autocomplete for reviews :/
16:56 ardissone: ok
16:57 ardissone: cpeterso: can you file a bug on me to make sure that we list "unique matches" there where irc nicks aren't?
16:57 ardissone: i don't want to open for more spam with email
16:57 cpeterso: ok
16:57 ardissone: but providing unique matches should be enogh
16:58 ardissone: (for ilya, ishermandom ;) )
16:58 ardissone: but thanks for brining that up :)
16:58 ardissone: caminoplanet's still not working
16:58 ardissone: i tried yesterday to fix it
16:59 ardissone: and got back to status quo post-SSL issues on the server
16:59 ardissone: (where venus was running, but not updating :P )
16:59 ardissone: so that's going to have to wait for Sam (and probably for the server migration) :(
17:00 ardissone: i do want to blog again about all the progress we've made since august
17:01 ardissone: but not when no-one gets to read it :(
17:01 ardissone: anyone else have anything else today?
17:01 cpeterso: nope.
17:02 ardissone: ok, everyone please work on 2.1/a1 bugs and reviews, and have a good week :)
17:02 ardissone: and cpeterso, welcome and good to see you :)
17:02 cpeterso: thx
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