Status Meetings:2007-10-31:Log
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[01:55am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv. [01:55am] You changed the topic to "http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2007-10-31:Agenda". [01:55am] _Tsk_ was promoted to operator by you. [01:56am] cl|zzz was promoted to operator by you. [08:36am] cl|zzz is now known as cl. [10:02am] cl is now known as cl|out. [10:10am] murph joined the chat room. [11:36am] jeff joined the chat room. [11:54am] cl|out is now known as cl. [11:56am] jeff was promoted to operator by you. [11:56am] murph was promoted to operator by you. [11:56am] You are now known as ardissone|food. [11:56am] smorgan joined the chat room. [11:56am] smorgan was promoted to operator by you. [12:01pm] kreeger joined the chat room. [12:01pm] pinkerton joined the chat room. [12:01pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by chanserv. [12:01pm] pinkerton: very busy [12:01pm] kreeger was promoted to operator by you. [12:01pm] ardissone|food: are we expecting mento? [12:01pm] ardissone|food: yes [12:01pm] mento joined the chat room. [12:01pm] mento was promoted to operator by chanserv. [12:02pm] ardissone|food: ok, everyone open your camino to http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2007-10-31:Agenda [12:02pm] ardissone|food: i'm going to hit 1.5.x really quickly first [12:02pm] cl is now known as cl|GettingDressed. [12:02pm] ardissone|food: we plan to release tomorrow or friday, after firefox [12:03pm] ardissone|food: i filed bug 401835 on the libSyste.B plug-in related crashes in 1.5.2 [12:04pm] ardissone|food: they rank as 5,6, and 9 for 1.5.2 [12:04pm] ardissone|food: there's a sample stack in the bug, but that's really all we have to go on [12:04pm] ss: is going to look up email addresses today. [12:05pm] ardissone|food: yeah, for DesktopServicesPriv, which is 4 and 8 (with spotlight and some hex) [12:06pm] ardissone|food: no bug on it yet, but working theory is maybe some open/save dialogue modifying haxie [12:06pm] ardissone|food: "theory" [12:06pm] ardissone|food: anything else on 1.5.x? [12:07pm] mento: we don't have the localized build yet but marcello is close [12:07pm] mento: although he's on leopard now and is having a little trouble - i may need to assist [12:07pm] mento: we should be ok on that front [12:07pm] ardissone|food: did you mail him back? my mail is slow today [12:07pm] mento: i did, but apparently not reply-al [12:08pm] ardissone|food: k [12:08pm] ardissone|food: 1.6/1.6a1 [12:09pm] ss: Yesss [12:09pm] ardissone|food: we've made some progress on swupdate, but it's not yet ready [12:09pm] ss: It's close. [12:09pm] smorgan: ? [12:09pm] ss: We need to decide on a URI. [12:09pm] smorgan: We just need sr, right? [12:09pm] ss: So I can get the SSL cert up and running. [12:09pm] smorgan: oh, and that [12:10pm] ardissone|food: yeah, that bug isn't in the list [12:10pm] mento: what's wrong with www.caminobrowser.org? [12:10pm] mento: get the cert for that [12:10pm] ss: I was asking if it should be a subdomain or not. [12:10pm] ss: And if it matters to the cert (since I haven't worked with certs). [12:10pm] ss: I believe that it does. [12:10pm] mento: it does [12:10pm] mento: why a subdomain? [12:10pm] ss: I can get a *.cb.o cert, iirc. [12:10pm] ss: Specifically for updates? [12:11pm] ss: I don't know. [12:11pm] ardissone|food: we don't want trunk preventing us from loading it [12:11pm] mento: is this going to be hosted somewhere that's not the same as www? [12:11pm] ss: Nope. Same spot. [12:11pm] smorgan: ardissone|food: Sparkle doesn't use necko [12:11pm] ss: So... pick a URI. cb.o/update? [12:11pm] mento: then let's get the cert for www.caminobrowser.org, and we can make the url something like www.caminobrowser.org/update [12:11pm] mento: done. [12:11pm] ss: Sounds good. [12:11pm] smorgan: I'll get you a prelm manifest soon [12:11pm] ss: emails them now. [12:12pm] ardissone|food: waiting on pink sr for the actual Camino code landing [12:12pm] ardissone|food: iirc [12:12pm] ss: You have to say it with his name. pinkerton's the hold up. [12:13pm] ss: That way it pings him. [12:13pm] ardissone|food: lets ss annoy the project lead [12:13pm] ss: I'm happy to. [12:13pm] ardissone|food: i know [12:13pm] ardissone|food: we also have bugs about figuring out the EULA and l10n [12:13pm] ardissone|food: and the appcast [12:13pm] mento: kill the eula [12:13pm] mento: have you seen leopard? [12:14pm] ss: Kill the EULA. [12:14pm] mento: the X is back (as i've been warning you for months) [12:14pm] ardissone|food: only from afar [12:14pm] mento: ss: hook our man up, wouldja? [12:14pm] ss: He has it. [12:14pm] ss: Just hasn't installed it yet. [12:14pm] ardissone|food: waiting on time + disk [12:14pm] smorgan: mento: you want to rip out the EULA stuff then? [12:14pm] mento: i really really really do [12:15pm] smorgan: I'll happily r+ [12:15pm] mento: hehe [12:15pm] mento: i'd love to do that chicken [12:15pm] ardissone|food: the whole world will applaud (well, maybe not mofo) [12:15pm] smorgan: requests the use of "die die die!" in the checkin comment [12:16pm] mento: nah, i think i'll make the comment "remove stephen colbert from credits.xhtml" [12:16pm] ss: lol [12:16pm] cl|GettingDressed: lol [12:16pm] ardissone|food: lol [12:16pm] cl|GettingDressed is now known as cl|packing. [12:17pm] ardissone|food: anything else about swupdate? [12:17pm] ss: No [12:17pm] ss: But murph said he might have open search done in a couple of days [12:17pm] smorgan: Once we have pinkerton's sr, we are good to go it sounds like [12:18pm] ardissone|food: we do need to figure out the l10n part [12:18pm] ss: I'd rather not release 1.6a1 at the same time as 1.5.3 either. [12:18pm] pinkerton: sorry, was on the phone [12:18pm] ss: So let's not release this week. [12:18pm] ardissone|food: yeah [12:18pm] murph: yep. it's been a work in progress for long enough. I'll try hard to get the editor review changes in today and OS by the weekend [12:18pm] ardissone|food: [12:19pm] ardissone|food: re a1 in particular, i think we mostly agree the xpt cleanup should block it [12:19pm] ardissone|food: too [12:19pm] mento: yes [12:19pm] mento: agree [12:20pm] mento: i'd hate to regress between 5.3 and 6a1 [12:20pm] pinkerton: i'll try to my sr list [12:20pm] ardissone|food: that's mento, when he breaks away from fixing build on 10.5 [12:20pm] mento: i actually finished all of the leopard bugs [12:20pm] ardissone|food: [12:21pm] mento: except we should figure out ibpalette [12:21pm] ardissone|food: mhm [12:21pm] smorgan: I'll try to find docs; my recollection is fuzzy [12:21pm] smorgan: I suspect the new way was Leopard tools only though [12:21pm] mento: me too [12:21pm] ardissone|food: [12:21pm] mento: didn't bother looking for docs yet because they're spottily available [12:22pm] ardissone|food: [12:22pm] mento: in any case, the old ib stuff was poorly documented too [12:22pm] ardissone|food: anwyay, a1 [12:22pm] mento: go apple [12:22pm] ss: Next week? [12:22pm] ss: Mid next week? [12:22pm] ardissone|food: in theory all P1 UI bugs were to be fixed [12:22pm] ardissone|food: Bug 361103 is still there; it can probably wait for beta [12:22pm] mento: how 'bout: swupdate + xpts and then roll it [12:23pm] ardissone|food: but it needs to be fixed [12:23pm] ardissone|food: sounds good [12:23pm] ss: Excellent. [12:23pm] smorgan: I looked at that [12:23pm] mento: there's a pair on the p1 list, what's up with that? [12:23pm] smorgan: I'm not certain it's worth the effort [12:24pm] ardissone|food: i find it very annoying [12:24pm] ardissone|food: /confusing [12:24pm] smorgan: I think we'd have to roll our own mouse tracking loop to fix it [12:24pm] ardissone|food: ew [12:24pm] mento: also, smorgan, we should talk about intentions of enabling swupdate in non-official builds - though we can do that in the bug or some other type of chat that's not the meeting [12:24pm] smorgan: sure [12:25pm] ss: (Have we talked about having a SWUpdate for nightly builds?) [12:25pm] smorgan: You mean nightly to other nightly? [12:25pm] ss: Yeah [12:25pm] smorgan: Nope [12:25pm] mento: we can talk about that too at the same time [12:25pm] ss: Awesome. [12:25pm] ardissone|food: jeff says a WIP for tab scrolling is on the way [12:25pm] ss: Not for now, but something to consider. [12:25pm] mento: how's this afternoon for y'all? [12:26pm] ss: Perfect. I'll be in meetings and bored. [12:26pm] mento: hot [12:26pm] ardissone|food: batwood expected to have something after the weekend, but that didn't materialize [12:26pm] ardissone|food: apparently [12:27pm] ardissone|food: i think that covers the big non-a1 features left [12:27pm] jeff: WIP for tab d&d will drop any second now [12:27pm] ss: [12:27pm] ardissone|food: [12:28pm] jeff: the sad thing is that I made more progress in 2 days since I gave up on desmonds code ... then trying to work with it [12:29pm] ardissone|food: "yay" [12:29pm] ardissone|food: i want to poke the trunk bugs quickly, and then we can jump to 10.5 [12:29pm] cl|packing: i'm out. gotta catch a flight to Detroit. I'll check the logs later [12:29pm] cl|packing is now known as cl. [12:29pm] ardissone|food: anyone who's not yet bored of debugging stupid gecko crap [12:30pm] ardissone|food: we need to take a look at Bug 401383 and Bug 401328 [12:30pm] cl left the chat room. (Quit: cl) [12:30pm] ardissone|food: maybe after we land the xpt cleanup [12:30pm] ardissone|food: but soon [12:30pm] ss: Ugh, yeah. [12:30pm] ardissone|food: since the fix for tab bleeing in fx 1) didn't fix us [12:30pm] ardissone|food: 2) regressed us [12:31pm] ardissone|food: so that's pretty nasty, and if widget changes are needed... [12:32pm] smorgan: They are floating in my todo list already [12:32pm] ss: ... We's need to get it in before the "platform beta". [12:32pm] ardissone|food: moco is becoming less willing to land fixes for Camino in widget [12:32pm] smorgan: Or "final" as it's also known [12:32pm] ss: Haha, yeah [12:33pm] ardissone|food: also on the "annoying flies in our ear" front [12:33pm] ardissone|food: the xpfe cleanup continues [12:34pm] ardissone|food: there's a patch in our xpfe bug that we need to make sure doesn't break us [12:34pm] ardissone|food: and stefanh spent some time this weekend getting a "build finishes, crashes on startup" MOZ_XUL_APP patch [12:34pm] mento: that's pretty hot. [12:34pm] smorgan: I'll try it at some point, but fundamentally I just don't see a reason to care about this stuff for 1.9 [12:34pm] ardissone|food: it doesn't do much [12:34pm] smorgan: So I haven't been prioritizing [12:35pm] ardissone|food: their goal is to kill xpfe for 1.9 [12:35pm] mento: it'll make it slightly less likely for random trunk crap to break us [12:35pm] ardissone|food: iiuc [12:35pm] smorgan: I see no reason at all for them to do it know rather than 2 though [12:35pm] smorgan: It will all magically die at that point anyway [12:35pm] mento: because it's dead anyway, except to us [12:35pm] ardissone|food: moz is on a "remove dead code now" kick [12:35pm] smorgan: Right, so why punish just us now [12:35pm] smorgan: When the code will die at the migration anyway [12:36pm] ardissone|food: caprice of the ruling party [12:36pm] mento: i'm sure we could argue for them to leave it, but nobody's going to give a shit if something breaks xpfe (and therefore us) [12:36pm] ardissone|food: anyway, we're digressing [12:36pm] smorgan: Well, people mostly don't care if *anything* breaks us, so... [12:36pm] ardissone|food: i just wanted to mention those two things are there [12:36pm] ardissone|food: for those inclined to take a look [12:36pm] mento: that's only partially true [12:37pm] mento: moco doesn't care [12:37pm] mento: a bunch of developers still do though [12:37pm] mento: but that's digression [12:37pm] ardissone|food: 10.5 [12:37pm] ardissone|food: the cat is out of the bag [12:37pm] mento: heh [12:38pm] ardissone|food: status bar i think we're all in agreement on [12:38pm] ardissone|food: bm bar is contentious as to the correct fix [12:38pm] ardissone|food: toolbar icons we've not given much thought to, but we want to keep color [12:39pm] smorgan: We just need lots of ideas and mockups for bookmark bar [12:39pm] ss: I concur. [12:39pm] ardissone|food: tab bar we've not thought about yet [12:39pm] ss: One thing that beltzner mentioned for Firefox is that they might desaturate the icons (using canvas, I think) so they blend in better. [12:39pm] smorgan: We may need to change them with the bmbar, certainly [12:39pm] ss: I don't think we should do that... [12:39pm] ss: But I thought it was worth mentioning. [12:39pm] ardissone|food: ew [12:40pm] ardissone|food: "you messed up my icon" [12:40pm] ss: (Just so we can all laugh.) [12:40pm] smorgan: "blend in"... are they completely jumping to the Apple UI camp? [12:40pm] ardissone|food: i can't find ian's 2nd screenshot :9 [12:40pm] smorgan: UI elements should be hard to see! [12:40pm] ss: Haha [12:41pm] mento: tab bar isn't even filed yet, correct? [12:41pm] ardissone|food: right [12:41pm] ss: Nope [12:41pm] smorgan: expects 10.6 to use the HGttG black ship motif for all chrome [12:41pm] mento: neither are icons, right? [12:41pm] ardissone|food: no, icons is "Theme update" [12:41pm] smorgan: icons are part of the "theme refresh" bug, I think [12:41pm] mento: oh, THAT bug, ok [12:42pm] ss: Yeah... [12:42pm] ss: I can change the summar [12:42pm] ss: y [12:42pm] smorgan: Is Jasper really around and planning on doing anything with the icons? [12:42pm] ardissone|food: anyway, ian's dark screenshot is in the bug [12:42pm] ss: "yes" [12:42pm] ss: But no [12:42pm] ss: We need to move on without him. [12:42pm] ss: If he can do something for 2.0, great [12:42pm] mento: hmpjh [12:42pm] ss: But not for 1.6. [12:42pm] ardissone|food: we actually do have the brighter set he made for us and we nixed [12:42pm] mento: we should also get the quarantining right for 1.6 [12:43pm] ardissone|food: or part of it [12:43pm] ardissone|food: yeah, the other question is what we take for 1.5.4 and what waits for 1.6 or 2.0 [12:43pm] ardissone|food: default apps needs to be 1.5.4, i think [12:44pm] smorgan: I'd like the status bar in 1.5.x [12:44pm] ss: I think we should take all the theme stuff for 1.5.4, personally. [12:44pm] mento: depends on how close 1.5.4 is to 1.6 [12:44pm] ardissone|food: i tend to agree [12:44pm] ss: Unless we plan on 1.6 by the end of the year. [12:44pm] ss: 1.5.4 will be early December. [12:44pm] ardissone|food: i don't see 1.6 before feb [12:44pm] ardissone|food: sorry [12:44pm] ss: Firefox has to ship by a certain date in December. [12:44pm] mento: early december? that's not soon? [12:45pm] mento: i meant something other than what i just wrote [12:45pm] mento: early december? that's so soon! [12:45pm] ss: Yeah, well [12:45pm] ss: There are reasons... [12:45pm] mento: and those reasons apply to us? [12:45pm] ss: Yes. [12:45pm] mento: ok [12:46pm] smorgan: If 1.6 is Feb, we aren't going to really be doing much for 2.0, I guess [12:46pm] smorgan: Because we need 2.0 to not be slow [12:46pm] ardissone|food: yeah [12:46pm] ardissone|food: tabspose [12:46pm] ss: We need 1.6 by the end of the year. [12:46pm] ss: We should feature freeze a couple weeks after a1 [12:46pm] ss: And create b1 [12:46pm] ss: If nothing else lands, then so be it. [12:47pm] mento: i require lunch. i think things are mostly wrapped up here. [12:47pm] ardissone|food: we have a lot of UI work to do before b1 [12:47pm] ss: Sure [12:47pm] ss: Some of it's already close though, like the status bar. [12:47pm] ss: And I can try and find a designer for the icons. [12:47pm] ardissone|food: i mean fixing all the prefpanes [12:47pm] ss: Hicks is booked through March, but might have some time for us. [12:47pm] ss: prefpanes? [12:48pm] ss: Those icons are actually fine, btw. [12:48pm] ardissone|food: s/all/webfeatures, mostly/ [12:48pm] smorgan: If we don't want 1.6 to run into 2.0, we'll need to start cutting things soon; I'm inclined to agree that we start locking down soon [12:48pm] ss: I'm saying we can ship without it. [12:49pm] smorgan: The more we cut fro 1.6, the better 2.0 will look [12:49pm] ardissone|food: we're up to 40 bugs targeted for 1.6 [12:49pm] ss: Haha, I agree. [12:49pm] ss: Some of those have patches [12:49pm] ss: And they'll get cut. [12:49pm] smorgan: But I'll try to hit up some of the pref pane stuff soon [12:49pm] ardissone|food: 2.0-quick, or 2.0-like-1.5-or-1.6 [12:49pm] ss: Like I said, two (maybe three) weeks after a1, we do b1 [12:49pm] ss: We have to ship right around when Gecko ships. [12:49pm] smorgan: We can at least cut the one pref from Features that we all agree on [12:50pm] smorgan: ss: you mean 2.0 now, right? [12:50pm] ss: Yes. [12:50pm] ss: We have to ship a 1.6 asap and 2.0 when Gecko1.9 is done. [12:50pm] ss: Within a month or two, I'd say. [12:50pm] smorgan: Yes [12:50pm] ss: Two is pushing it. [12:50pm] kreeger left the chat room. (Quit: kreeger) [12:50pm] ardissone|food: we also need to not be dead in the water re Safari 3 features now [12:51pm] ss: I care less about that. [12:51pm] ss: I know I should, but I don't. [12:51pm] ss: Camino 2 won't have anything if we ship all our features in 1.6. [12:51pm] ss: And we're running out of time. [12:51pm] ardissone|food: yes [12:52pm] ss: Let's ship the alpha [12:52pm] ss: Get our 10.5 stuff in [12:52pm] ss: And freeze for beta. [12:52pm] ardissone|food: so [12:52pm] ss: Take anything that is truly really close [12:52pm] ardissone|food: we need bookmakr bar mockups [12:52pm] ss: (As in, a day or two). [12:52pm] ss: Yep [12:52pm] ardissone|food: possibly tab bar mockups, too [12:52pm] ardissone|food: and for pinkerton to clear his sr queue [12:53pm] smorgan: I don't think we should write off all the features today; we'll see where they are [12:53pm] ss: Yeah [12:53pm] ardissone|food: i agree [12:53pm] smorgan: If we could get tab dnd, for example, I'd be willing to way a week [12:53pm] ardissone|food: me too [12:53pm] ss: Sure. [12:53pm] smorgan: But yes, we need to tighten the 1.6 belt as necessary to ship it [12:54pm] ardissone|food: i'd rather have a small 2.0 that we tout as "Gecko" than ship 1.6 with just swupdate [12:54pm] smorgan: Because 2.0 is really not on our schedule in a sense [12:54pm] smorgan: Remember, 1.6 already has scrolling tabs [12:54pm] ss: And tab scrolling... [12:54pm] ss: [12:55pm] ardissone|food: that's not in 1.5? [12:55pm] smorgan: Nope [12:55pm] ss: Nope [12:55pm] ss: Sadly [12:55pm] ardissone|food: ok [12:55pm] smorgan: So jeff won't sleep for a week or two, and we'll see where we are [12:56pm] ardissone|food: so, work on ideas for bookmakr bar [12:56pm] jeff: smorgan: you can tear my WIP apart and we'll go from there [12:56pm] ardissone|food: anyone have anything else? [12:57pm] ss: Yes [12:57pm] ss: We're advertising on the Deck in November and December. [12:57pm] ardissone|food: [12:57pm] ss: Look for us on the Deck sites. [12:57pm] ss: http://www.coudal.com/deck/ [12:58pm] ardissone|food: let that inspire you to write good code and do good reviews [12:59pm] ardissone|food: ok, have a good week [12:59pm] smorgan left the chat room. [12:59pm] ss: Happy Halloween [12:59pm] ardissone|food: oh, that, too [1:00pm] jeff: Boo! [1:00pm] jeff left the chat room. (Quit: jeff)