Status Meetings:2009-08-05:Log

[01:27am] You were promoted to operator by ChanServ.
[01:27am] You changed the topic to "http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2009-08-05:Agenda".
[11:57am] cl joined the chat room.
[11:58am] cl: hey, i made it
[11:58am] dan joined the chat room.
[11:59am] cl was promoted to operator by you.
[11:59am] dan was promoted to operator by you.
[11:59am] ardissone: wow, smorgan is here before 12/9! 
[11:59am] cl: maybe he left himself signed in? 
[12:00pm] ardissone: he wasn't here last night
[12:00pm] kreeger-office joined the chat room.
[12:00pm] kreeger-office was promoted to operator by you.
[12:00pm] ardissone: wonders what happened to murph; he pinged out 45m ago
[12:01pm] ardissone: heh
[12:01pm] murph joined the chat room.
[12:01pm] murph was promoted to operator by you.
[12:02pm] ardissone: give hendy a couple minutes to wake up and respond to hails, and then we'll start
[12:03pm] hendy joined the chat room.
[12:03pm] hendy was promoted to operator by you.
[12:03pm] ardissone: ok
[12:03pm] ardissone: everyone please open your Cm2.0b3 or newer to http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2009-08-05:Agenda
[12:04pm] ardissone: the crash report: Flash is back in the #1 spot
[12:04pm] ardissone: maybe not for long, as Flash 10.0.32.18 fixes the CFReadStreamGetStatus crash
[12:05pm] ardissone: the big jump this week is from _objc_error and friends, which we hope to be fixed in current code
[12:06pm] ardissone: did anyone mail the CamiNoScript guy about his crash after last week?
[12:07pm] cl: i missed the meeting, so I didn't know about it 
[12:08pm] ardissone: i forget what smorgan said his bug was, but it's in the log
[12:08pm] ardissone: does someone want to email him?
[12:08pm] cl: but yeah, I see it there in the crash report
[12:09pm] cl: I can do it if someone remembers his e-mail (or I can look it up on the forum)
[12:09pm] ardissone: k
[12:09pm] ardissone: (doing something wrong with NSString)
[12:09pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on b3?
[12:10pm] ardissone: ok
[12:11pm] ardissone: on the b4 front, let's continue to shoot for code freeze (l10n, and all features implemented) by the end of next week
[12:11pm] ardissone: 1.6.8, some crashes changed positions, but nothing new
[12:12pm] ardissone: But there are some common comments: Logging out of Yahoo! Mail (Flash) and loading nytimes (CF)
[12:12pm] ardissone: yay 
[12:13pm] ardissone: nothing really useful in the nytimes stacks
[12:13pm] ardissone: 1.6.9, the Gecko work is starting now
[12:13pm] ardissone: (see: red build on the tinderbox  )
[12:13pm] ardissone: the only things we have are Flashblock and various ad-blocking updates
[12:14pm] ardissone: so once Gecko gets its act together, we'll be good
[12:14pm] ardissone: I believe we'll be adding Slovenian this release
[12:15pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 1.6.x?
[12:16pm] ardissone: next up, mr now-appearing-on-caminoplanet, SoC hacker extraordinaire
[12:16pm] ardissone: dan!
[12:17pm] dan: nice intro  
[12:17pm] dan: well, I've been working a lot and don't have too much to show for it 
[12:17pm] ardissone: (makes up for the constant cursing-under-my-breath)
[12:17pm] dan: I just finished my 3rd complete rewrite of autocomplete last night, though
[12:18pm] ardissone: 
[12:18pm] dan: It's looking really promising
[12:18pm] ardissone:
[12:18pm] ardissone: banished are the slow regexps?
[12:19pm] dan: yes. Now using a kind of trie-based system
[12:19pm] cl: that's what smorgan had originally suggested when I proposed doing the rewrite in Cocoa in the first place
[12:19pm] ardissone:
[12:19pm] dan: yeah well live and learn
[12:19pm] dan:
[12:19pm] dan: anyway, I really hope to have a patch up either tonight or tomorrow
[12:19pm] ardissone: it's supposed to be a learning experience 
[12:19pm] ardissone:
[12:20pm] ardissone: dan: anything else from you?
[12:21pm] dan: nope, that's it I guess
[12:21pm] ardissone: ok 
[12:22pm] ardissone: keep up the good work
[12:22pm] dan: thanks  
[12:22pm] ardissone: on to Camino 2 stuff then
[12:22pm] cl: i'm very interested to try the new version when you get it done, dan. and thanks! 
[12:23pm] dan: it's coming!
[12:23pm] dan: crosses fingers
[12:23pm] ardissone: crosses finders, too
[12:23pm] ardissone: er, fingers
[12:23pm] ardissone: smorgan: breakpad or cocoa widget key blackhole news?
[12:24pm] smorgan: 'fraid not, I've been swamped
[12:24pm] ardissone: k
[12:24pm] smorgan: Oh, but I updated breakpad
[12:24pm] smorgan: Or was that the week before?
[12:24pm] ardissone: yes, i pasted last night!
[12:24pm] ardissone: last week, i think
[12:25pm] ardissone: murph: CJK fonts/sheet and safebrowsing
[12:26pm] murph: On the safebrowsing front, I improved the algorithm that determines when to show the blocker bar
[12:27pm] ardissone: that's in kreeger-office 's queue, right?
[12:27pm] murph: which, aside from makign the code clearer, fixes the bug you observed with it not appearing if it expires from our cache before ignoring the error overlay
[12:27pm] murph: yes, I asked him for the review on that
[12:28pm] cl: oh, yeah, i have a review pending on something, too
[12:28pm] ardissone:
[12:28pm] cl: i'll try to get to that later this week, although i'm not sure when that might happen, so if someone else can do it, go ahead.
[12:28pm] ardissone: we're pretty tight on reviewers and coders right now
[12:29pm] murph: cl: I did originally target you on that one, but then switched to kreeger since I found out he was up for the task
[12:29pm] cl: oh, heh, i didn't even see that it got switched
[12:29pm] murph: I wasn't sure how busy you were...
[12:30pm] ardissone: On the fonts front, is there any opposition to just ripping out the Carbon-based font menus in the advanced sheet, and leaving min-font and font type there?
[12:31pm] smorgan: That's certainly fine as a start
[12:31pm] ardissone: it's kind of sucky if we have to leave it, but there are unresolved design issues with fitting everything in the pane itself
[12:32pm] ardissone: and the menus currently break the sheet entirely, so they absolutely have to go
[12:33pm] ardissone: ok, i'll file a separate bug to make sure that gets done ASAP
[12:33pm] ardissone: murph: what happens with your menu patch when sb is not enabled?
[12:34pm] murph: hmm, as it stands now the item is still present and enabled
[12:35pm] ardissone: is that the right thing to do?  i sort-of think it's not
[12:36pm] murph: Usability wise, I think I agree with you.  Technically, it's not an error per say because reporting doesn't depend on sb being enabled
[12:37pm] ardissone: yeah, it's the usability side that bothers me
[12:38pm] ardissone: they're not getting the data, so a) they might be re-reporting and b) they're never going to get benefit of it
[12:38pm] ardissone: c) it's not a helpful clue that sb is disabled, if it somehow is
[12:38pm] murph: yeah those are all great, and valid, points...
[12:39pm] murph: do you think it's best to remove the item, or just disable it?
[12:39pm] ardissone: if we removed it, we could land the patch as soon as it was sr'ed 
[12:39pm] ardissone: but i don't know
[12:39pm] ardissone: smorgan: ^^^
[12:40pm] ardissone: from a clue point, disabled is more useful, i think?
[12:40pm] smorgan: Disable, with tooltip
[12:40pm] cl: yeah
[12:40pm] cl: agreed
[12:40pm] ardissone: just like swupdate
[12:40pm] smorgan: Yes
[12:40pm] ardissone: ok
[12:40pm] smorgan: We can do that in a follow-up
[12:41pm] murph: alright, good plan
[12:41pm] ardissone: it needs to be ready to be ready to land right after the other, though
[12:41pm] smorgan: Why?
[12:42pm] smorgan: Just in the "needed for b4" sense?
[12:42pm] ardissone: yes, and that those will prolly be the last to land
[12:42pm] ardissone: menu/prefs/on by default
[12:42pm] ardissone: once we get approval/are enabled by GOOG
[12:42pm] smorgan: Do we have an update on that?
[12:42pm] ardissone: ss: ^^^
[12:43pm] ardissone: sam was going to email last night, but he did some other task for me on his list before that
[12:43pm] ardissone: so between that and Gecko, dunno
[12:43pm] cl: gotta run. which is fine 'cause i had nothing to update on anyway 
[12:43pm] cl left the chat room. (Quit: back to work)
[12:44pm] ardissone: but visiting all of those scary haxxors last week seems to have left him energized, so hopefully...
[12:44pm] ardissone: has anyone looked at the new UI mockups in bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480207
[12:45pm] smorgan: Is it just color? I don't have a before handy
[12:45pm] ardissone: mostly color; tiny bits of layout
[12:46pm] ardissone: heh, i don't have a before, either 
[12:46pm] hendy: the colours kind of clash.
[12:46pm] smorgan: The text in 1.1 is essentially illegible to me
[12:47pm] ardissone: the normal ones, or the swaps?
[12:47pm] ardissone: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480207#c9 / https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=392178 or https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480207#c15
[12:48pm] ardissone: :sigh: linkfail
[12:48pm] ardissone: you can see them all http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/sb-overlay/
[12:48pm] ardissone: (except an original)
[12:48pm] smorgan: Oh, I was just looking at the attachments
[12:49pm] ardissone: i switched when i started creating too many 
[12:49pm] hendy: v1-swap-e8 is the best of the swaps
[12:49pm] smorgan: http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/sb-overlay/safebrowsing_overlay_wip_v1.1.png == illegible
[12:49pm] ardissone: yeah, that one's bad
[12:49pm] hendy: the roundrect has some aliasing at the corners
[12:50pm] ardissone: v1-swap-e8 is the Firefox red
[12:50pm] murph: I agree with hendy about the colors clashing, and am liking the gray background...
[12:50pm] smorgan: The swap doesn't look as sinister to me
[12:50pm] ardissone: we can't control Gecko's aa bugs 
[12:50pm] murph: https://bug479554.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=388905 is philipe's version
[12:50pm] hendy: i'd like to see it with an almost-white border, or none at all
[12:51pm] ardissone: the white-on-red of the existing version is painful to read
[12:51pm] ardissone: but there really aren't colors other than white that work against the red
[12:52pm] hendy: i think we need to keep the red background for impact
[12:52pm] smorgan: It's a small taste of the pain users will experience if they continue to the site 
[12:52pm] smorgan: The mostly-light-grey versions just don't give me that "Ruh-roh!" feeling that I think we want
[12:52pm] smorgan: (i.e., +1 to hendy)
[12:53pm] ardissone: http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/phishmal/safari-phish.png vs http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/phishmal/firefox30-phish.png ?
[12:54pm] ardissone: safari not scary enough?
[12:54pm] smorgan: The stripey banner helps
[12:55pm] smorgan: But I'd still vote for "more scary"
[12:55pm] ardissone: ok
[12:55pm] ardissone: everyone likes the darker, less-matching red better?
[12:56pm] ardissone: i.e., http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/sb-overlay/safebrowsing_overlay_wip_v1.png instead of http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/sb-overlay/safebrowsing_overlay_wip_v1.1.png
[12:56pm] hendy: i prefer http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/sb-overlay/safebrowsing_overlay_wip_v1-swap-e8.png over all over them
[12:56pm] ardissone: (ignoring for the moment the grey text, which doesn't work)
[12:56pm] smorgan: Yes, darker background + lighter text seems good
[12:57pm] ardissone: smorgan doesn't think the swaps are scary enough
[12:57pm] smorgan: If everyone disagrees, e8 is nice
[12:58pm] hendy: ah; in that case wip_v1 is good, with lighter text
[12:58pm] smorgan: (Although maybe match the text to the background if we go with e8)
[12:58pm] ardissone: i prefer the swaps (as does philippe, but he likes the brighter red ones)
[12:59pm] ardissone: i think swaps are more legible, and I do think that's important for our errors
[1:00pm] smorgan: Okay, then I vote for http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/sb-overlay/safebrowsing_overlay_wip_v1-swap-e8.png (possibly with darker title text)
[1:00pm] ardissone: yeah, i can match that
[1:00pm] smorgan: Minor nits: the hr and the button don't align, it looks like
[1:00pm] ardissone: yeah, there's padding 
[1:01pm] ardissone: problem #2 (or #3):
[1:01pm] smorgan: Not a big deal if it's not plausibly fixable
[1:01pm] ardissone: probably is; philippe was looking at it
[1:01pm] ardissone: xul:button default="true" doesn't actually respond to return 
[1:02pm] smorgan: whee
[1:02pm] ardissone: can someone write some js to make that work, or should i just remove the default=true and the focus() code?
[1:04pm] ardissone: (also, intra-button spacing is currently 34px as opposed to Cocoa-dangerous of 24, but farther is better, right?)
[1:04pm] hendy: if i get a chance, i can take a look at the js
[1:04pm] smorgan: It looks weird to me
[1:04pm] ardissone: smorgan: so back to 24?
[1:05pm] ardissone: hendy: ty
[1:05pm] hendy: yeah, the gap needs to be smaller
[1:05pm] ardissone: ok, i'll do a new mock with safebrowsing_overlay_wip_v1-swap-e8.png with darker title text and better button spacing/alignment
[1:06pm] smorgan: ardissone: yeah, 24 would be good
[1:06pm] ardissone: there's one more bit that will need some cocoa code written: to pull the "more info" url from the prefs and insert it into the loc.string
[1:07pm] ardissone: can follow-up on that, but that's where the overlay UI rework stands
[1:07pm] ardissone: erm, finishing quickly
[1:07pm] ardissone: hendy: zoom/utf-8?
[1:08pm] hendy: zoom text only got an sr+ with nits
[1:08pm] hendy: so i'll have a landable patch and 10.4 nib later today
[1:08pm] ardissone:
[1:08pm] ardissone: awesome
[1:09pm] hendy: then i need to get a patch for bug 464501 together, assuming my Ultimate Escaping System is correct
[1:09pm] hendy: once that's landed, i can finish up the other utf-8 bugs
[1:10pm] ardissone: and the zoom increment?
[1:10pm] hendy: lucky last
[1:10pm] ardissone: k
[1:10pm] kreeger-office is now known as kreeger.
[1:11pm] hendy: i think bug 464602 will fix quite a few of the other utf-8 bugs, if i code it right
[1:11pm] ardissone: (i think we need to have the increment change in b4 to collect final feedback; otherwise i'd say it could miss b4)
[1:11pm] ardissone: :)
[1:12pm] ardissone: on the 10.5 UI front, new folders in the Cocoa UI have landed; still debating "up" for dirListing
[1:12pm] ardissone: new tab and bmbar has landed
[1:12pm] hendy: *cough green arrow cough*
[1:12pm] ardissone: need to watch for 10.4 feedback on those
[1:12pm] ardissone: and
[1:13pm] ardissone: Sam said he'll work on the downloads window icons!
[1:13pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 2.0?
[1:15pm] ardissone: if you need some good vibes for the day, be sure to check out http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1400695
[1:15pm] hendy: i think he's a fan :)
[1:16pm] ardissone: we continue to move closer to b4 and 2.0, not as much in the last week as before, but moving
[1:16pm] ardissone: so everyone please keep on those b4 bugs and reviews, and have a good week!