http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=Status_Meetings%3A2007-09-26%3ALog 2026-09-06T06:14:12Z Revision history for this page on the wiki MediaWiki 1.34.4 http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/index.php?title=Status_Meetings:2007-09-26:Log&diff=8375&oldid=prev 2007-09-26T17:16:23Z

<p>log</p> <p><b>New page</b></p><div>&lt;pre&gt;[03:07am] You changed the topic to &quot;http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2007-09-26:Agenda&quot;.<br /> [12:00pm] mento joined the chat room.<br /> [12:00pm] mento was promoted to operator by chanserv.<br /> [12:02pm] _Tsk_ was promoted to operator by you.<br /> [12:03pm] peeja|sleep joined the chat room.<br /> [12:03pm] peeja|sleep was promoted to operator by you.<br /> [12:03pm] peeja|sleep is now known as peeja.<br /> [12:04pm] ardissone|food: waiting on pink to come over, and hopefully smorgan to show up<br /> [12:05pm] ss: pink&#039;s idle online...<br /> [12:06pm] ardissone|food: ss!<br /> [12:06pm] ss:<br /> [12:06pm] ardissone|food: <br /> [12:06pm] ardissone|food:<br /> [12:06pm] mento: while waiting, i&#039;ll read what smorgan did to the supdate doc<br /> [12:07pm] smorgan joined the chat room.<br /> [12:07pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you.<br /> [12:07pm] mento: one to go<br /> [12:07pm] ss: I was about to say &quot;one down&quot;<br /> [12:07pm] ss: great minds<br /> [12:08pm] mento: i&#039;ve got larry david &quot;curb your enthusiasm&quot; glasses with a line drawn horizontally along the middle<br /> [12:08pm] mento: below the line, it says &quot;half empty&quot;<br /> [12:08pm] mento: and above the line, it says &quot;half empty&quot;<br /> [12:08pm] ss: Haha<br /> [12:09pm] ardissone|food: which one is &quot;one to go&quot; ?<br /> [12:09pm] mento: the bottom one<br /> [12:10pm] kreeger joined the chat room.<br /> [12:10pm] kreeger was promoted to operator by you.<br /> [12:15pm] peeja left the chat room. (Quit: peeja)<br /> [12:15pm] ardissone|food: ok<br /> [12:15pm] ardissone|food: we&#039;ve waited 15 mins for prof pinkerton<br /> [12:16pm] ardissone|food: everyone open http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2007-09-26:Agenda in your Camino<br /> [12:16pm] ardissone|food: the 1.6 section is entirely the same<br /> [12:17pm] ardissone|food: the new thing is we get to ask mento about breakpad for a1 <br /> [12:17pm] mento: let&#039;s set some dates for a1<br /> [12:17pm] mento: i bet my answer is &quot;yes&quot; though<br /> [12:17pm] ardissone|food: sw update is currently the only blocker for a1<br /> [12:18pm] smorgan: And we still need some answers about servers there<br /> [12:18pm] ardissone|food: a1&#039;s a recusive rat&#039;s nest<br /> [12:18pm] mento: right, i&#039;ve got to talk to luser and bent<br /> [12:18pm] mento: and the likes of them<br /> [12:18pm] ardissone|food: ss is/was here today<br /> [12:18pm] mento: i think they&#039;ll be happy to accommodate us at this point<br /> [12:18pm] ss: I am.<br /> [12:18pm] mento: but i&#039;ll confirm with them<br /> [12:18pm] ardissone|food: so you can discuss ssl with him<br /> [12:18pm] ss: Yeah, we&#039;ll be fine on their servers. I believe SeaMonkey is joining them.<br /> [12:18pm] mento: what of ssl?<br /> [12:19pm] ss: And if we&#039;re not, we have our own server we can use.<br /> [12:19pm] ss: Whatever kind you&#039;d like?<br /> [12:19pm] ss: We&#039;ve been offered free hosting and whatever we need.<br /> [12:19pm] cl: oh, right, meeting.<br /> [12:19pm] smorgan: mento: We want to serve all downloads for any update via https<br /> [12:19pm] smorgan: So as to not have it be an internet-cafe-pwnage vector<br /> [12:19pm] mento: smorgan: is that strictly necessary? what if the updates are checksummed and only the checksum is delivered over https?<br /> [12:20pm] ss: That&#039;s seems weird. We&#039;re not going to use the mirror network?<br /> [12:20pm] ss: That would be expensive and overall suck on our end.<br /> [12:20pm] mento: right<br /> [12:20pm] ss: We can do it, but it&#039;s a pain.<br /> [12:20pm] smorgan: That was the question<br /> [12:20pm] smorgan: Or we can have the build machine sign the downloads<br /> [12:20pm] smorgan: No idea how feasible that is<br /> [12:20pm] ss: (I mean, it&#039;d be free, but it&#039;d be &quot;expensive&quot; as far as life goes.)<br /> [12:20pm] mento: build machine signs and the user&#039;s client validates the signature?<br /> [12:21pm] smorgan: Yes, Sparkle supports signed downloads for verification<br /> [12:21pm] mento: the signature&#039;s metadata then, though, right?<br /> [12:21pm] smorgan: It becomes part of the update manifest<br /> [12:22pm] smorgan: That we clearly need to serve over https regardless<br /> [12:22pm] mento: so we need to distribute our public key with the clients then, right?<br /> [12:22pm] smorgan: Yes<br /> [12:22pm] mento: that&#039;s fine<br /> [12:22pm] smorgan: I didn&#039;t know how much pain would be involved in signing<br /> [12:22pm] ss: We&#039;re just distributing the manifest over https then?<br /> [12:23pm] smorgan: Sounds like<br /> [12:23pm] ss: Sounds good<br /> [12:23pm] mento: we can make tinderbox do whatever we want<br /> [12:23pm] smorgan: k<br /> [12:23pm] kreeger is now known as kreeger-away.<br /> [12:23pm] mento: as long as it has a command-line interface <br /> [12:23pm] smorgan: Then we just have to be very careful not to lose the key <br /> [12:23pm] mento: ha<br /> [12:24pm] smorgan: (Per the Sparkle docs; I found it amusing)<br /> [12:24pm] ardissone|food: hehe<br /> [12:24pm] mento: hah<br /> [12:24pm] ardissone|food: so, does sparkle meet all of our needs then?<br /> [12:25pm] ss: Sounds like<br /> [12:25pm] smorgan: Assuming my plan for OS versioning works, yes<br /> [12:25pm] mento: what&#039;s your plan for os versioning?<br /> [12:25pm] smorgan: Dynamically set the manifest URL at each launch<br /> [12:25pm] mento: there&#039;s an api to reset that, right?<br /> [12:26pm] smorgan: And we maintain either a manifest per major OS break<br /> [12:26pm] smorgan: yes<br /> [12:26pm] mento: probably major os version + cpu arch<br /> [12:26pm] smorgan: ?<br /> [12:26pm] ardissone|food: for when we drop ppc?<br /> [12:27pm] ss: Potentially, yeah.<br /> [12:27pm] mento: at some point, we&#039;ll probably need to kill ppc<br /> [12:27pm] mento: so we should have the cpu arch in there<br /> [12:27pm] smorgan: wonders why we would need to kill ppc<br /> [12:27pm] ardissone|food: have you not met Gecko? <br /> [12:27pm] mento: because apple&#039;s tools stop supporting it as a target<br /> [12:27pm] mento: it won&#039;t be next year or anything<br /> [12:28pm] smorgan: k<br /> [12:28pm] ardissone|food: Gecko *looooves* to support only one Mac OS X version these days <br /> [12:28pm] ardissone|food: (anyway)<br /> [12:28pm] smorgan: We probably want to have a little script that takes a few params and serves content appropriately<br /> [12:28pm] mento: sure<br /> [12:28pm] ss: Yeah, we probably do.<br /> [12:29pm] smorgan: So we don&#039;t have to maintain the versions that are the same (10.4/10.5, ppc/i386, etc.)<br /> [12:29pm] ss: Feel free to volunteer to write said script. <br /> [12:29pm] mento: no prob<br /> [12:29pm] mento: moving on<br /> [12:29pm] ardissone|food: so we should move forward with seeing about getting permission for landing it in the tree?<br /> [12:29pm] mento: is mozUpdate out of the running at this point?<br /> [12:29pm] mento: too complex/not enough doc?<br /> [12:30pm] smorgan: mento: the plan was to use Sparkle if possible<br /> [12:30pm] mento: right, i remember that<br /> [12:30pm] mento: but your table has mozUpdate too<br /> [12:30pm] smorgan: It&#039;s still an option if Sparkle falls through<br /> [12:30pm] mento: all right<br /> [12:30pm] ardissone|food: we wanted to compare<br /> [12:30pm] cl: Be sure to use some sane update interval. Sparkle&#039;s default is 30 minutes.<br /> [12:30pm] smorgan: I just donwanna <br /> [12:30pm] mento: i don&#039;t either <br /> [12:30pm] ardissone|food: it was going to have OmniSoftwareUpdate, too, if it hadn&#039;t vanished<br /> [12:31pm] mento: who do they think they are, inventing their own archive format? jeez!<br /> [12:31pm] ardissone|food: remembers hearing that about our bookmarks plist <br /> [12:32pm] mento: plist already existed! we just put bookmarks into it!<br /> [12:32pm] mento: anyway, it&#039;s better than bookmarks.html <br /> [12:32pm] ardissone|food: so, what are our action items for swupdate?<br /> [12:32pm] cl: notes that no one seems to be able to agree on exactly what the Netscape &quot;bookmarks file format&quot; really _is_<br /> [12:32pm] ardissone|food: we had lots of conversation; let&#039;s summarize to get on the same page<br /> [12:32pm] mento: needs to go to lunch now<br /> [12:32pm] smorgan: ardissone|food: I write it, is certainly one<br /> [12:33pm] ardissone|food: before that, get approval for the tree<br /> [12:33pm] ardissone|food: but is there anything else before *that*<br /> [12:33pm] ss: Can we estimate time so we can tell mento how long he has to for breakpad? <br /> [12:33pm] mento: yes, please<br /> [12:33pm] ss: thinks mento likes working with a deadline.<br /> [12:33pm] ardissone|food: tomorrow! <br /> [12:34pm] mento: it helps when you&#039;re managing several things<br /> [12:34pm] cl: haha<br /> [12:34pm] mento: ha<br /> [12:34pm] smorgan: I&#039;d love to say a few days, but with my recent availability I&#039;m thinking a couple weeks is probably realistic<br /> [12:34pm] mento: october 10?<br /> [12:34pm] ardissone|food: can&#039;t wait to get rid of slow talkback<br /> [12:34pm] smorgan: sure<br /> [12:34pm] mento: smorgan, are you still interested in the breakpad ui?<br /> [12:34pm] ss: Note that we&#039;ll have a release around the 16th, iirc.<br /> [12:34pm] ss: 1.5.2<br /> [12:35pm] smorgan: yep. I was going to ask you about the &quot;extra information&quot; file<br /> [12:35pm] mento: that&#039;s fine<br /> [12:35pm] ss: Sounds good<br /> [12:35pm] smorgan: Is that going to be there, or it a firefoxism?<br /> [12:35pm] mento: ok, we can talk about that a little outside of the meeting<br /> [12:35pm] smorgan: k<br /> [12:35pm] mento: we should include some extra info too<br /> [12:35pm] smorgan: I&#039;ll follow up later<br /> [12:35pm] mento: fyi, i&#039;m going to have a little more time for camino for at least a few weeks<br /> [12:35pm] mento: we&#039;ll chat later<br /> [12:35pm] mento: lunchtime.<br /> [12:35pm] ss: So, moving on...<br /> [12:35pm] ss: 1.5.2 should happen in a couple/few weeks.<br /> [12:36pm] ss: I believe the target date was the 16th, but I might have to check on that.<br /> [12:36pm] ss: That is, if we want to release in sync with Gecko.<br /> [12:36pm] ss: I&#039;ll let everyone know when it is and we can make a build or two.<br /> [12:36pm] smorgan: so that&#039;s 1.8x2?<br /> [12:36pm] ss: 1.8.1.8<br /> [12:37pm] ss: ardissone|food: You want to talk about 1.5.1 and talkback?<br /> [12:38pm] ardissone|food: sorry, phone from paris <br /> [12:38pm] ardissone|food: yeah, new topcrash this week<br /> [12:39pm] ardissone|food: looks like site icon code <br /> [12:39pm] smorgan: ruh-roh<br /> [12:39pm] peeja joined the chat room.<br /> [12:39pm] peeja left the chat room. (Quit: peeja)<br /> [12:39pm] ardissone|food: 10.3.9 only afaict<br /> [12:39pm] ardissone|food: i didn&#039;t file bug yet<br /> [12:40pm] ardissone|food: all the ones look like http://talkback-public.mozilla.org/search/start.jsp?search=2&amp;type=iid&amp;id=36266174<br /> [12:40pm] ardissone|food: 3am bug filing = no good<br /> [12:40pm] ardissone|food: but i will later today<br /> [12:41pm] smorgan: Bleh, that looks like a crash in image unarchiving<br /> [12:41pm] ardissone|food:<br /> [12:41pm] smorgan: Same place as the exception that we will be catching in 1.5.2<br /> [12:41pm] ardissone|food: so 1.5.2 = better?<br /> [12:42pm] smorgan: Not if it&#039;s a crash<br /> [12:42pm] ardissone|food: ok <br /> [12:42pm] smorgan: An Apple crash log of this would help, since I could be mistaken about the underlying cause<br /> [12:43pm] smorgan: e.g., maybe we are passing in bad params<br /> [12:43pm] smorgan: But given that suddenly people on 10.4 were seeing exceptions here...<br /> [12:43pm] smorgan: Well, maybe 10.3 as well; I don&#039;t remember<br /> [12:44pm] ardissone|food: none of the 10.4 libSystemBs were this, so maybe crash 10.3, exception 10.4?<br /> [12:44pm] ardissone|food: anyway, i&#039;ll get sam to see if we can find emails for these people<br /> [12:45pm] ss: mmm<br /> [12:45pm] ardissone|food: at some point we should probably troll the DesktopServicesPriv for emails, too, and get CmDiag reports<br /> [12:45pm] smorgan: btw, speaking of &quot;Camino stops working&quot;... for anyone who didn&#039;t see it go by, we know another cause now<br /> [12:45pm] ardissone|food: oh, right; sorry<br /> [12:45pm] smorgan: Either the sketchy core plugin code or Flash has struck again<br /> [12:46pm] smorgan: Not at all clear why people are suddenly seeing it more from my tests though<br /> [12:46pm] ardissone|food: bug 397053<br /> [12:46pm] smorgan: Although it&#039;s possible that the convergence of several new causes just made it appear it&#039;s happening more than it ever did<br /> [12:47pm] smorgan: The gist of it is, if you like youtube, you&#039;ll probably need to quit periodically <br /> [12:48pm] ss: Yeah, and Adobe&#039;s looking at it too<br /> [12:48pm] ardissone|food: get GOOG to use h236 and QT instead <br /> [12:48pm] ss: So hopefully they&#039;ll get something figured out or at least know if it&#039;s us or them<br /> [12:48pm] ss: (us meaning Gecko)<br /> [12:48pm] ardissone|food: yeah, michelle is good at working with us <br /> [12:49pm] ardissone|food: sam&#039;s made good progress on the website cleanup the past couple of weeks<br /> [12:49pm] ardissone|food: lots of stuff there, but we&#039;re moving<br /> [12:49pm] ardissone|food: peeja and jeff are both gone<br /> [12:49pm] ss: Most if it requires designers<br /> [12:50pm] ss: So if you know any with free time...<br /> [12:50pm] ardissone|food: [11:04am] jeff: hey I am not going to be at the mtg today, I have a patch for bug 390909 coming this afternoon<br /> [12:50pm] ardissone|food: [11:05am] thebot: jeff: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=390909 nor, --, ---, Jeff.Dlouhy@gmail.com, NEW, Tabsposé allows clicking in bookmark bar without reflecting action<br /> [12:50pm] ss: Awesome<br /> [12:51pm] ardissone|food: sam owes mento something<br /> [12:51pm] ardissone|food: mayaTrunk needed the monitor plugged in, as mento expected<br /> [12:51pm] ss: Scotch is what build guys normally like.<br /> [12:51pm] ss:<br /> [12:52pm] ss: Yeah<br /> [12:52pm] ss: So maya&#039;s fine now<br /> [12:52pm] peeja joined the chat room.<br /> [12:52pm] peeja was promoted to operator by you.<br /> [12:52pm] ardissone|food: do we have an update on binus?<br /> [12:52pm] ss: Nope. I try it every day in hopes it&#039;ll come back.<br /> [12:52pm] ss: I&#039;ve cleared the pram and such.<br /> [12:53pm] ss: Just doesn&#039;t want to boot. I&#039;ll keep trying.<br /> [12:53pm] cl: &quot;The definition of insanity is repeating the same task expecting a different outcome&quot;<br /> [12:53pm] ardissone|food: we need to get you 10.3 on a disk of some sort<br /> [12:53pm] ss: I can manage that.<br /> [12:53pm] ss: But I&#039;m not sure it&#039;ll help.<br /> [12:53pm] ss: I don&#039;t think the OS is messed up.<br /> [12:53pm] ardissone|food: or, really, and OS, and see if does boot<br /> [12:54pm] ss: I just think the machine is ready to go.<br /> [12:54pm] ss: But we&#039;ll see<br /> [12:54pm] ardissone|food:<br /> [12:54pm] ss: I&#039;ll do more troubleshooting.<br /> [12:54pm] ardissone|food:<br /> [12:54pm] ardissone|food: peeja: are you here? if so, do you have anything to say about AS?<br /> [12:54pm] peeja: i am, and...i don&#039;t<br /> [12:54pm] peeja: sorry<br /> [12:55pm] ardissone|food: students <br /> [12:55pm] ardissone|food: the only thing worse than students are people with real jobs and lives <br /> [12:56pm] ardissone|food: which is a great segue into bugs and queues<br /> [12:56pm] ardissone|food: the important bug in the queue is smorgan&#039;s part-fix for trunk protocol suckage<br /> [12:56pm] ardissone|food: mento: that&#039;s you<br /> [12:56pm] ardissone|food: the sooner we can tell which bugs it doesn&#039;t fix, the better<br /> [12:57pm] smorgan: I&#039;ll try to look at ftp crapping out very soon, as that bit me as well<br /> [12:57pm] smorgan: It wouldn&#039;t surprise me if the lack of nsIHandlerService implementation that I discovered yesterday is screwing us in various ways<br /> [12:58pm] ardissone|food: heh<br /> [12:58pm] ardissone|food: smorgan: you also have kreeger&#039;s two &quot;stop spamming&quot; patches; wanna choose one? <br /> [12:58pm] smorgan: Yes, sorry<br /> [12:59pm] ardissone|food: murph: how&#039;s the opensearch code?<br /> [12:59pm] ardissone|food: (aside from the part drawing the pretty pictures)<br /> [1:00pm] murph: ardissone|food: coming along pretty good, I have been working on drawing the chosen mockup...<br /> [1:01pm] smorgan: glah, I have a really old review request too<br /> [1:01pm] ardissone|food: we chose one?<br /> [1:01pm] murph: the way it looks now I can do all drawing in code and just draw behind the actual Cocoa-supplied search button image<br /> [1:01pm] ardissone|food: nice <br /> [1:01pm] murph: the parsing is complete as well; I just need to add some support to BWC to intermediate<br /> [1:02pm] murph: as for which mockup, I was convinced by smorgan&#039;s comments, and am now leaning towards 18<br /> [1:03pm] ardissone|food: 0h, i missed that comment<br /> [1:04pm] ardissone|food: it&#039;s only orange when on a page offering an engine, right?<br /> [1:05pm] murph: do you guys think we&#039;ll ever support another search plugin format in the future, because the path I&#039;m on now is to generalize the main parsing procedure and allow specific implementations for each format<br /> [1:06pm] murph: ardissone|food: yeah, only when it recognizes a plugin offered by the visible page<br /> [1:06pm] smorgan: murph: how much extra work/complexity is that?<br /> [1:07pm] smorgan: If not much, you may as well; if a bunch, probably better to wait until it comes up to refactor<br /> [1:09pm] murph: well, it&#039;s not too much extra work at all; I only ask because I didn&#039;t want to go over-engineering this area without cause<br /> [1:09pm] ardissone|food: i can&#039;t imagine opensearch being the end of the road <br /> [1:10pm] ardissone|food: ok, anyone have anything else?<br /> [1:10pm] ardissone|food: we went long since we waited for professor pink<br /> [1:12pm] ardissone|food: er, who&#039;s going to do the &quot;can we get Sparkle in the tree&quot; dance? (if i&#039;m right in believing that&#039;s the next step for swupdate before implementing it)<br /> [1:12pm] ss: Are we landing it fairly wholesale?<br /> [1:12pm] ardissone|food: (and if i&#039;m not right, what else is in the way)<br /> [1:12pm] ardissone|food: mento wants src<br /> [1:12pm] ss: I&#039;d file a bug specifically for that and we can ask Gerv<br /> [1:12pm] ss: But it should be fine<br /> [1:12pm] ss: Yeah<br /> [1:12pm] ardissone|food: so we do moz/camino/sparkle or whatever<br /> [1:12pm] ss: I meant, unmodified<br /> [1:13pm] ardissone|food: afaik, that&#039;s the plan<br /> [1:13pm] ss: Then yeah, let&#039;s file a bug for it.<br /> [1:13pm] ardissone|food: k<br /> [1:14pm] ardissone|food: last call<br /> [1:15pm] ardissone|food: everyone have a good week, and keep on plugging on those patches and reviews&lt;/pre&gt;</div>

Sardisson