Status Meetings:2006-09-18:Log
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12:03 < froodian> i can't do tuesdays at this time 12:03 < ardissone|away> http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2006-09-18 12:03 * pinkerton repeats for ss 12:03 < pinkerton> hey, can we move this to tuesdays? mondays are really bad for me this fall because of my class 12:03 <@ss> Yes. 12:03 < froodian> could it be later? 12:04 < froodian> like, 11 PDT? 12:04 <@ss> Not if we want Europe... 12:04 < froodian> how about wednesday then? 12:04 < froodian> i mean, i can just read the logs if i have to 12:04 < froodian> but i'd rather be able to make the meetings 12:05 <@ss> Wednesday work for everyone? 12:05 < delliott> Not at all, but there is not going ot be a happy medium 12:05 < pinkerton> yes, but not 11am PDT on wed ;) 12:05 -!- kreeger2 has joined #camino-mtg 12:05 < pinkerton> sorry i brought it up, i'll go back to my hole 12:05 <@ss> No... 9am PDT on Wed. 12:05 <@ss> Does that work? 12:06 < delliott> Not for me, but if I am the only one it doesn't work for then it's ok. 12:06 < mento> will it remain on PDT when the rest of the country goes back to standard time? :) 12:06 <@ss> Haha 12:06 <@ss> No. 12:06 <@ss> Then it'll be PST. 12:06 < mento> then 9am PT shall suffice. going once, going twice. 12:06 < ardissone|away> Bruce can't usually do other than Mondays, iirc 12:06 < ardissone|away> fwiw 12:06 < mento> today is monday. where is bruce? 12:06 < kreeger2> works for me 12:07 < ardissone|away> dunno ;) 12:07 <@ss> Alright. Let's move on. 12:08 <@ss> So, first off. 12:08 <@ss> 1.1 12:09 <@ss> We have 122 bugs... how many do we want to land before we go to alpha? 12:09 <@ss> s/land/fix 12:09 <@ardissone|away> not numbers so much as "which areas" 12:09 <@ss> Right. 12:09 <@hwaara> popup blocker 12:09 <@ss> The big regressions have been fixed. 12:09 <@froodian> ^^ ++ 12:10 <@ss> When you say "popup blocker" what do you mean? 12:10 <@hwaara> it needs way more polishing 12:10 <@ardissone|away> mostlty 12:10 <@hwaara> mostly interface changes 12:10 <@hwaara> but we can also throw in some enhancement, I suppose 12:10 <@hwaara> most of those RFEs are easy, iirc 12:10 <@ss> Does that include adding back the option to put it in the status bar? 12:10 <@ardissone|away> 9 bugs listed on my list 12:10 <@ss> Because that's bigger than the rest. 12:10 <@froodian> i'd really like it to 12:11 <@ss> I would do. But for alpha? 12:11 <@hwaara> yeah, I think cl has that bug? 12:11 <@froodian> because otherwise i'll spend all day long answering email about it 12:11 <@hwaara> froodian: yeah, we need to make it look good before release imho 12:11 <@ss> Why question is, can we ship without that change? 12:11 <@ss> s/Why/My 12:11 <@delliott> How many of the new 1.1 features do we want to land in the Alpha - which ones will need the most testing? 12:11 <@ardissone|away> ship a1, or final? 12:11 <@hwaara> ss: the pref? 12:11 <@ss> a1 12:11 <@ss> Not final 12:12 <@ss> hwaara: Yes 12:12 <@froodian> i can see the TUAW article bitching about it now 12:12 <@froodian> in my head 12:12 <@hwaara> I don't feel bad about that, but people who do should comment 12:12 <@ss> It's an _alpha_ 12:12 <@ss> There will be things that people don't like. 12:12 <@hwaara> I mean, I like the popup blocker :) it just needs more polish for me to be happy, personally. 12:12 <@ss> That's what I'm saying... :) 12:12 <@ardissone|away> grr 12:12 <@froodian> well, i won't scream and yell if i'm the only one who feels it's important 12:12 <@froodian> (and ardissone|away) 12:13 <@hwaara> froodian: I think cl does too, no? 12:13 <@ardissone|away> cl will :P 12:13 <@kreeger2> i think it works better than before 12:13 <@kreeger2> since most users missed the popup icon down below 12:13 <@delliott> ss: What kind of state is the 1.1 branch in as we speak? 12:13 <@ss> He finds it important, but we're not scrapping the pref. 12:13 <@hwaara> if it looks good, less (new) users of it will be unhappy, I think 12:13 <@ss> delliott: I'm nots ure what your question is... 12:13 <@ardissone|away> delliott: locked down for rc 12:13 <@kreeger2> delliott: my 9-10 build seems good 12:13 <@ss> Yeah, the 1.8 branch has been locked down. 12:13 <@ardissone|away> gecko shouldn't be changing much from now on 12:14 <@hwaara> are we releasing 1.x from 1.8? 12:14 <@froodian> yes 12:14 <@ss> yesw 12:14 <@ss> yes* 12:14 <@delliott> ss: I meant to ask how does the Camino side of the 1.1 branch look? Are there any new features in there already? 12:14 <@hwaara> k 12:14 <@froodian> delliott: http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2006-09-18 12:14 <@kreeger2> sounds like a good time to get around to a alpha 12:14 <@froodian> err, rather 12:14 <@hwaara> delliott: there's no 1.1-branch 12:14 <@froodian> http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Release_Notes_1.1 12:14 <@hwaara> there's a 1.8-gecko branch, and a "trunk" 12:14 <@hwaara> camino is equal on both 12:14 <@ss> *sigh* 12:15 <@ardissone|away> http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/User:Sardisson/Camino_1.1#Major_New_User-Facing_Features_in_Camino_1.1 12:15 <@ss> delliott: All of these changes we've been landing... they're going to be in 1.1 12:15 <@ss> And yes. There's tons. 12:15 <@hwaara> btw, seems like most people agreed in #camino that the new release will be big enough for us to go 1.5 12:15 <@hwaara> or at least something bigger than 1.1 12:15 <@ss> Let's not talk about versioning yet... :) 12:15 <@hwaara> ok 12:15 <@hwaara> let's bring it up at some meeting 12:16 <@ss> Put it on the agenda for next week. 12:16 <@hwaara> before 1.1 is set in stone on all wiki pages :P 12:16 <@ss> I really think we're close to a1 12:16 <@delliott> For the people who play with 1.8 branch at the moment, does it warrant being released as an Alpha, as is? 12:16 <@froodian> i guess i'm ok with not adding the pref for a1. but the popup blocker definately needs attentikno before it 12:16 <@ss> I think we could ship it tomorrow if we wanted to, even with some issues. 12:16 <@delliott> ss: That is what I was trying to get to. 12:16 <@ardissone|away> we need to get more testing in the field, yes 12:16 <@ss> So, let's say "popup bar clean up" then release. 12:16 <@ss> Any complaints? 12:17 <@hwaara> if smorgan is gonna revamp keychain soon, I don't think it's good to release a1 before it 12:17 <@ss> I do. 12:17 <@ardissone|away> it'd be nice, for conisistency's sake, to get bug 342780, too 12:17 <@ss> We can always have an a2 12:17 <@hwaara> that needs testing though 12:17 !sand.mozilla.org ss invited thebot into the channel. 12:17 -!- thebot has joined #camino-mtg 12:17 <@smorgan> Why would keychain matter? 12:17 <@hwaara> if it's a big rewrite 12:17 <@ss> bug 342780 12:17 < thebot> ss: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=342780 nor, --, Camino1.1, stridey@gmail.com, ASSI, Cmd and Shift modifiers for "View Image" don't work when pushing command after opening context menu 12:17 <@smorgan> User's won't know it's different 12:17 <@ardissone|away> er, that's not the one i meant, but that, too 12:17 <@hwaara> smorgan: yes, but we need QA 12:17 <@smorgan> Unless they are on Intel and like looking at raw keychain items 12:17 <@ss> ardissone|away: I see that as less important. 12:17 <@hwaara> lots of users testing for regressions 12:17 <@delliott> smorgan: Hot stuff! 12:18 <@ss> hwaara: We can have an a2. 12:18 <@froodian> he meant bug 290212 12:18 <@ardissone|away> the one where open in new tabs, doesn't 12:18 < thebot> froodian: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=290212 enh, --, Camino1.1, stridey@gmail.com, NEW, Implement bookmark folders' "Open in Tabs"/"Open in New Tabs" with alternate menu items 12:18 <@delliott> OR an a7 :) 12:18 <@ss> I still see that as less important as well. 12:18 <@hwaara> ss, delliott: or we can just wait a few days :P 12:18 <@ss> It's not a regression, is it? 12:18 <@froodian> it is since 1.0.x 12:18 <@ardissone|away> yes 12:18 <@delliott> http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2006-09-18 12:18 <@ss> Ah... k 12:18 * ss wonders why the bug number is so low. 12:19 <@froodian> i morphed it 12:19 <@froodian> sorry 12:19 <@ardissone|away> GetCEMK broke it 12:19 <@ss> Awesome. 12:19 <@ss> So. 12:19 <@ardissone|away> but that bug will fix it 12:19 <@ss> I'll ask again 12:19 <@ss> Does everyone feel comfortable with launching an a1 soon? 12:19 <@delliott> Aye 12:19 <@ss> As in, a week, maybe a little more 12:19 <@ardissone|away> by the end of the month 12:19 <@ss> pinkerton: ^^ 12:19 <@hwaara> end of month sounds good 12:20 <@pinkerton> sure. what do we want to do about the popup blocker issue? 12:20 <@ss> Those are what we're going to fix before it. 12:20 <@ss> Some cleanup to the popup blocker are all that blocks release. 12:20 <@ss> (Of the alpha, not final) 12:20 <@hwaara> jon hicks' design mockups looked great 12:20 <@hwaara> (some of them ;) ) 12:20 <@pinkerton> ok 12:20 <@kreeger2> which bug is hicks mockup on? 12:20 <@ss> hwaara: We're not there yet. 12:20 <@ardissone|away> heh 12:21 <@froodian> we'll get there 12:21 <@ss> One thing at a time please. 12:21 <@pinkerton> can i also suggest we rename the "Unblock" button to "Show popup" ? 12:21 <@ardissone|away> i didn't like any :P 12:21 <@pinkerton> osrry 12:21 <@pinkerton> i'll shut up 12:21 <@ardissone|away> Yes :) 12:21 <@ss> Isn't that in a bug? 12:21 <@ardissone|away> there's a bug, i think 12:21 <@pinkerton> ok 12:21 <@ss> Next 12:21 <@hwaara> pinkerton: maybe we can clarify it when there'll be a popupmenu 12:21 <@ss> All you devs needs to focus on 1.1 bugs. 12:21 <@ss> No more straying! 12:21 <@ss> ;) 12:22 <@ss> But an all seriousness, we need to get that number down so we can release. 12:22 <@kreeger2> give me a list of the most important stuff and I will work on them 12:22 <@ss> The more focus we have on 1.1, the better off we'll be. 12:22 <@hwaara> kreeger2: there's a list on the wiki 12:22 <@ss> The only large change I'd like (after a1, I mean) is Software Update. 12:22 <@ss> And that's still "potential" 12:22 <@ardissone|away> kreeger2: http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/User:Sardisson/Camino_1.1 12:23 <@hwaara> that's a huge amount of work, I think, ss 12:23 * ss notes that we've been linking to the same pages a lot. 12:23 <@ss> It shouldn't be. 12:23 <@ss> bsmedberg said it really shouldn't be. 12:23 <@hwaara> why not? 12:23 <@hwaara> ok 12:23 <@ss> They made the system so we could use it. 12:23 <@ss> Next 12:23 <@hwaara> has anyone except Firefox/thunderbird tried it yet though? 12:23 <@hwaara> Songbird? 12:23 <@ss> Everyone welcome Hicks if you see him on IRC. 12:23 <@ss> Flock does it. 12:23 <@delliott> Willdo 12:23 <@froodian> Hicks+++ :) 12:23 <@ss> He might be joining IRC from time to time. 12:24 <@hwaara> Flock just rips off the source though ;) 12:24 <@ss> But mostly he'll be just posting to bugs. 12:24 <@ss> He's very very very eager to help out 12:24 <@froodian> :D 12:24 <@ardissone|away> :) 12:24 <@delliott> Great to hear :) 12:24 <@ss> And has some great interface changes he wants to propose for our next major release after 1.1 12:25 <@ss> But right now, he's focusing on 1.1 bugs, like everyone should be. :) 12:25 <@ss> We also have a new contributor as of yesterday. 12:25 <@ss> bug 308062 12:25 < thebot> ss: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=308062 min, --, Camino1.1, camino@seanmurph.com, NEW, Trust CA dialogue: "trust this certif for" options text is cut off 12:25 <@ss> Sean Murphy seems fairly eager to help as well 12:25 <@delliott> Excellent 12:25 <@ss> So be sure to welcome him and treat him well. 12:25 <@ss> :) 12:25 <@froodian> (and seems competent too) 12:25 <@ss> Yeah, he does. 12:25 <@ardissone|away> always a plus :) 12:25 <@ss> Which is a Good Thing (tm) 12:26 <@ss> And finally (for 1.1), smorgan is going to get that Keychain rewrite going. 12:26 <@ss> And I'm sure we're all happy to have smorgan contributing patches again. :) 12:26 <@pinkerton> :D 12:26 <@ardissone|away> it won't fix the user-facing bugs, but we'll be halfway there :) 12:26 <@ss> So, moving on to 1.0.3 12:26 <@ss> We released. 12:26 <@ss> yay 12:26 -!- kreeger has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:26 <@delliott> Beer! 12:26 <@ss> It went down without any real hitch. 12:26 <@ss> Gecko had their problems 12:27 <@ss> But we managed to make it happen in spite of them. 12:27 <@ss> mento: We need to you land one more patch on that branch 12:27 <@ss> mento: bug 337750 12:27 <@ardissone|away> big thanks to l10n for the quick turn-around 12:27 < thebot> ss: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337750 cri, P2, Camino1.1, nobody@mozilla.org, NEW, bookmarks-corrupted-n.plist often written as empty file 12:27 <@froodian> the patch that's marked "obsolete" 12:27 <@ss> If we can get that logging in on the branch it'll help. 12:27 <@ss> Really? 12:27 <@mento> the logging one 12:27 <@ss> Yes. 12:28 <@mento> which one? 12:28 <@ardissone|away> yes, we want a one-off with the superlogging 12:28 -!- kreeger has joined #camino-mtg 12:28 <@ardissone|away> the "obsolete" one 12:28 <@ss> mento: Apparently the one that's marked obsolete. :) 12:28 <@froodian> the obsolete patch is superlogging. since there won't be a release off that branch, it can land 12:28 <@mento> okok 12:28 <@ss> So land it, get a build out, then we can get the tbox back on 1.8.0 12:29 <@ardissone|away> what about 104? 12:29 <@ardissone|away> nm 12:29 <@ss> 1.0.4 will be "whenever" 12:29 <@ss> Probably in a Gecko rev or 2. 12:29 <@ardissone|away> that branch = 1.0.3 minbranch 12:29 <@ardissone|away> ian was confusing me 12:29 <@ss> mento: Did you email Jay about talkback by chance? 12:29 <@froodian> sorry 12:30 <@mento> ss: no 12:30 <@ss> So someone should do that. 12:30 <@ss> I can. 12:30 <@ss> Or ardissone|away? 12:30 <@ardissone|away> mento: i can do that, if you'd like 12:30 <@ss> We have a volunteer! 12:30 <@ss> Going once, going twice... 12:30 <@ss> Sold. 12:30 <@mento> ardissone|away: sure, go for it 12:30 <@delliott> Well volunteered! 12:30 <@ardissone|away> k 12:30 <@mento> if you don't want it, i'll do 12:30 <@ardissone|away> it's np for me 12:31 <@ss> Also, the SeaMonkey guys want a list of files we use in XPFE. 12:31 <@ss> mento: This is kind of for you too. 12:31 <@froodian> [10:51am] <mento> ha 12:31 <@froodian> [10:51am] <mento> lots of stuff that winds up in the jars 12:31 <@ss> They want to be careful not to break us 12:31 * ss laughs 12:31 <@mento> ss, froodian: patch landed on CAMINO_1_0_3_MINIBRANCH, build from that branch to get the logging 12:31 <@mento> lots of stuff that winds up in the jars. 12:31 <@froodian> mento: k, ty :) 12:31 <@hwaara> I think if only autocomplete is the xpfe dependency, I think we can remove it easily 12:31 <@ss> mento: The tbox will produce one more build, right? 12:31 <@hwaara> mento: is autocomplete all we use in xpfe? 12:31 <@ss> I doubt it. 12:32 <@mento> ss: not unless you ask me to make it produce another build 12:32 <@ss> mento: Can you please make it produce another build? 12:32 <@mento> certainly! 12:32 <@ss> Excellent! 12:32 <@froodian> :) 12:32 <@ardissone|away> :) 12:32 <@ss> Our queue is a bit backlogged again... 12:33 <@mento> next build will be 1.0.3+superlogging 12:33 -!- hwaara has quit [Quit: hwaara] 12:33 <@ss> And a lot of those bugs need to land so that their dependent bugs can be worked on. 12:33 <@ss> I'm looking at you pinkerton. 12:33 * ss hands pinkerton https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/request.cgi?action=queue&requester=&product=Camino&type=superreview&group=type 12:33 <@ardissone|away> biesi's patch needs sr so he'll keep fixing what he breaks ;) 12:34 <@ss> Yeah, that's important. 12:34 <@ss> mento: You looked at biesi's patch too, right? 12:34 <@ss> bug 351492 12:34 <@mento> biesi writes many patches. which one? 12:34 < thebot> ss: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=351492 maj, --, ---, cbiesinger@gmx.at, ASSI, HTTP authentication dialogs don't remember passwords, not prefilled 12:34 <@ss> That one. 12:34 <@ardissone|away> mento was the original sr req 12:34 <@ss> The only Camino related one. :) 12:35 <@mento> yeah 12:35 <@pinkerton> feh, i'm busy! 12:35 <@mento> ok, sr+ 12:35 <@ss> SR it? 12:35 <@ss> Awesome. 12:35 <@pinkerton> oh, fwiw, i'm out all next week on vacation 12:35 <@mento> i just wanted to know if it had been tested 12:35 <@ss> Sweet. 12:35 <@ss> We'll meet without you. 12:35 <@ss> And choose a new name for Camino. 12:35 <@froodian> :) 12:35 <@ss> Like "Pink Panther" 12:35 <@delliott> Ace 12:35 <@pinkerton> that's hot 12:35 <@mento> why is the trunk burning? 12:35 <@ardissone|away> biesi struggled through building camino on someone else's Mac to test it 12:35 <@froodian> it's monday :p 12:35 <@ardissone|away> it hasn't burned in a week :P 12:35 <@delliott> Tinderbox is always on fire. 12:36 <@ardissone|away> what did neil do? 12:36 <@ss> Gah 12:36 <@mento> mothorfuckor 12:36 <@ss> Back to the meeting! 12:36 <@ss> Let's do some specific bugs now. 12:36 <@ss> bug 340412 12:36 < thebot> ss: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340412 nor, --, ---, stridey@gmail.com, ASSI, Protect (warn) against (accidentally) opening too many tabs 12:36 <@ss> To expose the number or not to expose the number. 12:36 <@ss> That is the question. 12:36 <@mento> fine. i'll take my off-topic rants to #camino. 12:37 <@froodian> I think it's a good idea to expose how many = many since a) it doesn't take up any room and b) it avoids having to use obtuse language like "many" 12:37 <@ardissone|away> expose 12:37 <@ardissone|away> yeah 12:37 <@ss> I agree with that. 12:37 * pinkerton deletes a nasty email to the camino list 12:37 <@ss> pinkerton: How do you feel about exposing the number? 12:37 <@froodian> too bad hwaara isn't here to argue the other way... 12:37 <@froodian> or perhaps fortunately ;) 12:37 <@pinkerton> what do you mean "expose the number"? 12:37 <@pinkerton> you mean make it a pref? 12:38 <@smorgan> I want the pref, and I don't want 15, so I vote expose 12:38 <@froodian> pinkerton: like this: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=238141 12:38 <@ardissone|away> it is a pref 12:38 <@pinkerton> uh 12:38 <@pinkerton> no 12:38 <@ardissone|away> just giving that pref the UI 12:38 <@froodian> pinkerton: why no? 12:38 <@pinkerton> clutter 12:38 <@ss> Just giving UI to the number. 12:38 <@ss> We plan to have the pref anyway. 12:39 <@pinkerton> let's pick the right default 12:39 <@pinkerton> anyone who wants to change it alrady knows how 12:39 <@froodian> but how will people know what it is? 12:39 <@pinkerton> we'll tell them on our website 12:39 <@froodian> they see "warn with many" but they don't know what == many 12:39 <@delliott> deafault = (width of tab bar / width of tab) + 1 12:40 <@ss> We could make it dynamic based on the hidden pref? 12:40 <@pinkerton> i also don't quite understand what this pref is for 12:40 <@froodian> if it's dynamic, it might as well be exposed 12:40 <@smorgan> Dear god, no. The number can't be variable 12:40 <@ardissone|away> the whole one, or the number one? 12:40 <@pinkerton> "are you sure you really want to do the thing you just told me to do"? 12:40 <@froodian> pinkerton: when opening a large url array (like tab groups) 12:40 <@froodian> it warns if it's over x tabs 12:40 <@ss> Alright... 12:40 <@delliott> In which situation would a person not want to open a those tabs? 12:40 <@pinkerton> right, but the user just told you to do that 12:41 <@smorgan> If you accidently open in tabs a folder with 100 bookmarks, it can be painful 12:41 <@froodian> if they hit cmd-1 accidentally 12:41 <@delliott> smorgan: That is the penalty that you pay! 12:41 <@pinkerton> should we ask them if they really want to render a page that's over 200k? 12:41 <@delliott> pinkerton: Yup 12:41 <@delliott> Somebody file a bug 12:42 <@delliott> http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2006-09-18 12:42 <@froodian> no need to be sarcastic 12:42 <@delliott> Damnit 12:42 <@froodian> we're trying to get shit done 12:42 <@froodian> opening very large url arrays can cause lengthy beachballing 12:42 <@froodian> and data loss 12:43 <@froodian> we should let the user decide to have a second chance if they want it 12:43 <@ss> I agree with that. 12:43 <@ardissone|away> (also, fwiw, fx already does this) 12:44 * mento goes to lunch 12:44 <@ardissone|away> if you don't want it, just turn it off 12:44 <@pinkerton> i'm not sure giving users the ability to edit the # of tabs is useful 12:44 <@froodian> well, no. if you'd don't want it, don't turn it on 12:44 <@pinkerton> what user can tell you what # is too many? 12:44 <@froodian> it's off by default 12:44 <@ardissone|away> it varies by individual usage 12:45 <@ardissone|away> what you have in various groups, imo 12:45 <@ss> Right. 12:45 <@ss> For me, opening 100 tabs is normal. 12:45 <@smorgan> My usage is that I want this on, but I have a tab group I use all the time that has 17 items 12:45 <@ss> But for someone else, a tab group with 20 might be too many. 12:45 <@smorgan> So without a pref for the number, the pref for the waring is useless 12:45 <@froodian> the main thing in my eyes is that clutter is minimal and it doesn't add *any* extra space, and it clarifies the wording 12:46 <@delliott> smorgan's argument seems reasonable. 12:46 <@pinkerton> i just can't see any user knowing what to sset that to 12:46 <@ardissone|away> what froodian said 12:46 <@ardissone|away> we set it to 15 by default 12:46 <@ardissone|away> and then it's easy for the user to cahnge if he fallss oin the wrong side 12:46 <@froodian> if the user doesn't know, they don't touch it 12:46 <@ardissone|away> e.g., smorgan's use-case 12:46 <@froodian> like history length 12:47 <@pinkerton> i'm not a fan of that pref either 12:49 <@delliott> For the people who want to use this preference, being able to set it will be important to them. 12:49 <@smorgan> How much feedback has there been wanting this pref? 12:49 <@froodian> little to none. but it's not in a release of Fx yet. 12:49 <@froodian> once it is, we might see some 12:50 <@pinkerton> i don't think "firefox does it" is a reason to add features nobody has been asking for already 12:50 * froodian looks at the popup blocker ;) 12:50 <@froodian> sorry, had to mention it 12:51 <@froodian> i'm ok with not exposing the number, but i really don't know how to word it 12:51 <@smorgan> So just document the pref on the magic page, and don't put UI for it unless there's a need 12:51 <@froodian> in a way that would mean anything to anybody 12:51 <@pinkerton> then you get to come explain to my girlfriend how to tell that someone blocked a popup ;) 12:51 <@smorgan> I'm against the pref without the number; I think it should be both or neither 12:51 <@froodian> pinkerton: ;) 12:51 <@ardissone|away> (all we need to do is give her lots of tab groups....) 12:51 <@pinkerton> ff provides a text field, i assume? 12:51 <@kreeger2> the pref could be dangerous 12:51 <@froodian> i'm fine with neither - it's what my first patch did 12:52 <@kreeger2> what if someone types in -1 or 0 or 100? 12:52 <@froodian> we'd limit the text field 12:52 <@froodian> in fact, my patch does 12:52 <@froodian> like history 12:52 <@froodian> positive numbers only. 100 would be fine. 12:53 <@ss> So... was anything decided? :) 12:53 <@smorgan> Is there any argument against supporting it but without UI? 12:53 <@ss> pinkerton: ^^ 12:53 <@ardissone|away> which, the main pref or the number pref? 12:54 <@froodian> both 12:54 <@smorgan> No UI at all 12:54 <@smorgan> If you set the hidden pref, Camino would respect it 12:54 <@pinkerton> that's what i'd suggest 12:54 <@pinkerton> if and when we get a lot of requests, we can add it 12:54 <@froodian> k. sounds like a decision. 12:54 <@froodian> next? 12:54 <@ardissone|away> k 12:55 <@ardissone|away> scroll icons 12:55 <@ss> Yes. 12:55 <@ardissone|away> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=238812 12:55 <@ss> For delliott's patch. 12:55 <@ss> (Which delliott needs to finish) ;) 12:55 <@ss> pinkerton: What do think of the selections in that attachment? 12:55 <@ardissone|away> we shouldn't make the scroll buttons look like the active tab 12:56 <@pinkerton> sweet jesus 12:56 <@ardissone|away> so nothing in column2 12:56 <@pinkerton> i sorta like the gradient, but can't tell how busy it would look 12:57 <@pinkerton> that and no other button looks like that 12:57 <@froodian> it might look weird with a bookmarks bar 12:57 <@froodian> imo 12:57 <@ss> And which of the arrow styles are we leaning toward? 12:57 <@ardissone|away> yeah 12:57 <@ss> I'm a fan of 4/9/14 12:57 <@froodian> me too 12:58 <@ss> ardissone|away, pinkerton: ? 12:58 -!- desmond has joined #camino-mtg 12:58 < desmond> Gah 12:58 <@pinkerton> did all the << 's get tossed or were they not considred? 12:58 <@ardissone|away> 1/foo or 4/foo 12:58 < desmond> Host died. 12:58 <@ss> They weren't considered 12:58 <@froodian> << would imply different behavior, no? 12:58 <@ardissone|away> they're overflow menu-specific 12:58 <@ss> Right 12:58 <@ss> They imply different behavior. 12:59 <@ardissone|away> this is a pseudo-scollbar 12:59 <@ss> If we're changing our behavior,w e shouldn't use the same icon. 12:59 <@smorgan> Then why not 1/6/11, which looks essentially like a scroll bar arrow? 12:59 <@ss> timeless checked in a potential fix, btw. 12:59 < desmond> I'm quite keen to use <- -> and slide by width just like OS X applications are moving to. 12:59 -!- kreeger2_ has joined #camino-mtg 12:59 <@froodian> desmond: don't talk about behavior now. 13:00 * ss concurs 13:00 <@froodian> three months after everybody settled down on something 13:00 <@pinkerton> dashboard uses closest to 5/10/15 13:00 <@ss> I think the arrows look weird withour current behavior. 13:00 <@ardissone|away> but we're not scrollling like dashboard, aiui 13:00 <@ss> 5/10/15 look very weird to me. 13:00 <@smorgan> 2/7/12 looks more like dashboard to me 13:01 <@ss> thin and "stringy" or something... 13:01 <@pinkerton> oh right, sorry 13:01 < desmond> 2/7/12 is Dashboard-esque. 13:01 <@pinkerton> yeah, i missed that 13:01 <@ardissone|away> imo it's 1/foo or 4/foo 13:01 <@ardissone|away> ;) 13:01 < desmond> As well as iTunes store esque 13:01 <@smorgan> I think row 1 for single-tab, row 2 for full-width 13:01 <@ss> I could agree with 1/6/11 13:01 <@ss> The only concern I have 13:01 <@ss> Is the small target area 13:01 <@pinkerton> was just typing that 13:01 <@ss> smaller* 13:01 < desmond> It is tiny. 13:02 -!- kreeger2 has quit [Ping timeout] 13:02 -!- kreeger2_ is now known as kreeger2 13:02 <@pinkerton> would "2" look too much like the back button? 13:02 <@ardissone|away> make it larger? 13:02 <@ss> Yeah, 2 might. 13:02 <@ardissone|away> more like disclosure-triange size? 13:02 <@ss> We can just have Hicks make 1 larger. 13:02 <@pinkerton> maybe you could make it larger and curved like the horizontal scroll arrows at each end 13:02 <@pinkerton> on a scrollbar 13:03 <@ss> More aqua ish? 13:03 <@ss> (Now that Apple is moving away from that...) 13:03 <@ss> ;) 13:03 <@pinkerton> you know how the ends curve into the scroll thumb? 13:03 <@froodian> or curved like the way the scrollbar buttons are to accomidate the scroll thumb? 13:04 <@froodian> what would they fit into though? 13:04 <@pinkerton> maybe add soemthin like that to the side that touches the tabs to blend it in more 13:04 <@froodian> would the left/rightmost tab be curved? 13:04 <@pinkerton> not sure, just tossing out an idea 13:04 * ss really doesn't know what "curve" you're all talking about. 13:04 <@pinkerton> i like 1 or 2 13:04 < desmond> ss the curve that you get in Finder 13:04 <@ss> I like a larger version of 1. 13:04 <@ardissone|away> ^^^ 13:05 <@ss> I really kind of like 4, but 1 would work for me. 13:05 < desmond> Do we want the button to stick out against the tab bar? 13:05 <@froodian> http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7024/picture1er8.png 13:05 <@froodian> ss: ^ 13:05 <@ss> Oh, that. 13:05 <@ss> Err... I'm not sure I like that. :) 13:06 <@ss> So row 1? 13:06 -!- kreeger2 has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0b2/2006082101]] 13:06 <@ss> Larger. 13:06 <@pinkerton> just tossing out an idea ;) 13:06 <@ss> Sure 13:06 <@ss> I'll give feedback to Hicks 13:06 <@ss> He can come back with a couple more. 13:06 <@ss> Which "background" do we like? 13:06 <@froodian> i like left 13:06 <@pinkerton> first column, i think 13:06 <@pinkerton> the 3rd column looks like the depressed image 13:07 <@ardissone|away> currently the button takes its bg from the bar (i.e., 1st column) 13:07 < desmond> Middle looks like a rollover 13:07 <@pinkerton> but the lighting is totally wrong 13:07 < desmond> ss, can we ask for more of 1 and 2 ? 13:07 <@froodian> -> class. see my most recent comment in Bug 331331 for how i feel when we get there 13:07 <@ardissone|away> if we continue to just make it take its bg from the bar, we can hook up hover, etc 13:07 < thebot> froodian: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331331 nor, --, Camino1.1, nobody@mozilla.org, NEW, Change popup blocker's color 13:07 -!- froodian is now known as froodian|class 13:08 <@ss> So, #1, larger, and maybe with a scroll thing. 13:08 <@ss> The curvy thing, I mean. 13:08 <@ss> Next? 13:08 <@ardissone|away> maybe ;) 13:08 <@ss> I'll talk to Hicks 13:08 <@ss> He'll get us new graphics. 13:08 <@ardissone|away> bug 352922 13:08 < thebot> ardissone|away: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=352922 min, --, Camino1.1, alqahira@mindspring.com, NEW, Override some generic strings in netError.dtd and config.dtd with "Camino" 13:08 * smorgan heads to work 13:08 -!- smorgan has quit [Quit: smorgan] 13:09 <@ardissone|away> make us suck a little less 13:09 <@ardissone|away> Which method should we employ? "live replacement" or check-in pre-modified files? 13:09 <@ss> I say checkin 13:09 <@ss> But I don't know why. 13:09 <@ardissone|away> checkin is simpler, but on live branches we'll have to keep an eye out for string changes 13:10 <@ss> But I guess I'm hoping for a "real" fix on trunk. 13:10 <@ardissone|away> heh 13:10 <@ardissone|away> not gonna happen :P 13:10 <@ss> And if we're just doing a quick change on the branch, those strings have been frozen. 13:10 <@ss> Optimism. 13:10 <@ardissone|away> right, on the branch it's fine now 13:11 <@ss> On the 1.8 branch. 13:11 < kreeger> bbl 13:11 -!- kreeger has quit [Quit: kreeger] 13:11 <@ardissone|away> i don't forsee lots of changes, truthfully 13:11 <@ardissone|away> but it's a consideration 13:12 * ardissone|away wishes there were a way to "tag" files and have cvs email you when they get changed 13:12 <@ss> I say stick with 1. 13:12 <@ss> Pray and moan for a better solution for trunk. 13:12 <@ardissone|away> and do nothing in the meantime? 13:12 <@ss> Hm? 13:12 <@ss> Isn't doing 1 doing something? 13:13 <@ardissone|away> 1 is live replacement 13:13 <@ss> Err 13:13 <@ardissone|away> i'm all confused 13:13 <@ardissone|away> ss: :/ :P 13:13 <@ss> "2) Do a "live replacement"" 13:13 <@ss> ... 13:13 <@ardissone|away> no wonderd 13:13 <@ss> You're killing me here... 13:14 <@ss> ;) 13:14 <@ardissone|away> different order in the bug and wiki :/ 13:14 <@ss> Ah 13:14 <@ardissone|away> k 13:14 <@ss> So 1 in the bug. 13:14 <@ss> It's easy, it's doable 13:14 <@ss> It's here 13:14 <@ss> It's now. 13:14 <@ss> a=me 13:14 <@ss> Finally 13:14 <@ss> The bug you've all been waiting for. 13:14 <@ss> bug 331331 13:14 < thebot> ss: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331331 nor, --, Camino1.1, nobody@mozilla.org, NEW, Change popup blocker's color 13:14 <@ss> pinkerton: We need a decision on this today. 13:15 <@ardissone|away> everyone's gone 13:15 <@ss> pinkerton: Hicks uploaded some images. 13:15 <@ss> I care most about pinkerton's decision. 13:15 <@ss> :) 13:15 <@ardissone|away> they're all bad imo ;) 13:15 <@pinkerton> looking 13:15 <@ss> Read the last comment too. 13:15 <@ss> comment 12, btw. 13:16 <@ardissone|away> i find them all hard to read 13:16 <@ss> Even the yellow one? 13:16 <@ss> ;) 13:16 <@pinkerton> i don't understand what the extended blocker is 13:17 <@ss> Right, so look at the attachments in the bug? 13:17 <@ss> The non-Hicks one. 13:17 <@ardissone|away> yellow's not as good as what we have now 13:17 < desmond> The faded yellow looks nice :) 13:18 <@ardissone|away> though frankly, once i don't have to see the bar ever again, i won't care 13:18 <@ardissone|away> i don't think we can reasonably do the extended bar for 1.1 13:19 <@ss> pinkerton: ? 13:19 <@pinkerton> what? 13:19 <@pinkerton> i only see blue 13:19 <@pinkerton> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331331 13:19 < thebot> pinkerton: Bug 331331 nor, --, Camino1.1, nobody@mozilla.org, NEW, Change popup blocker's color 13:19 <@ss> Comment 12 13:20 <@pinkerton> ohhh 13:20 <@pinkerton> feh 13:21 <@ss> And just for you: http://www.adggda.com/~ss/camino/mockups/ 13:21 <@ss> Uploading... 13:21 <@pinkerton> i got it 13:21 <@ss> Done. 13:21 <@ss> k 13:21 <@pinkerton> i like the idea of the glassy 13:21 <@pinkerton> or the gradient 13:22 <@ss> I do as well. 13:22 <@pinkerton> firefox uses gray, but that seems lame to me 13:22 <@ss> But at the same time 13:22 <@ardissone|away> i think glassy looks really out of place 13:22 <@ss> Do think it's worth "extending" the tab? 13:22 <@ss> Fx 2 won't use grey. 13:23 <@ss> It's yellowish. 13:23 <@pinkerton> i still dont know what "exteded" means 13:23 <@ss> With a blue alert icon. 13:23 <@ardissone|away> pinkerton: the last 3 attachments on the bug 13:23 <@pinkerton> looks the same to me 13:23 <@ardissone|away> blue alert icon? ew 13:23 <@ss> It's different. 13:23 <@pinkerton> what am i missing? 13:23 <@ss> pinkerton: You see how the tab doesn't "end" 13:23 <@ardissone|away> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=226107 13:23 <@ss> And instead the "end" of it is below the popup blocker 13:24 <@pinkerton> oh 13:24 <@ss> Yeah, that attachment shows it best. 13:24 <@ss> The alert is now tied to the tab. 13:24 <@pinkerton> makes sense to me 13:24 <@ardissone|away> can/should we do that for 1.1? 13:24 <@ss> Would that be better than Hicks' ideas? 13:24 <@ss> Or should we go with Hicks' stuff for 1.1 13:24 <@ss> And look at it later? 13:24 <@pinkerton> seems like we have more important things 13:25 <@ss> So, change the color for now 13:25 <@ss> Attach it to the tab later 13:25 <@ss> Right? 13:25 <@pinkerton> right 13:26 <@ss> And which of Hicks' ideas do you like? 13:26 <@ss> Or do you want him to create more? 13:26 <@ss> It will involve changing code either way, since right now it's just one color set in code. 13:27 <@ss> Adding a gradient involves code changes. 13:27 <@pinkerton> i don't like the light blue 13:27 <@pinkerton> i hate the red 13:27 <@ss> I hate the red too. 13:27 <@pinkerton> i like the dark (black and blue) but i think they're still overpowering to the content 13:27 < desmond> You love the faded mustard colour, don't you? ;) 13:27 <@pinkerton> we want it visible, but not the focal point of the content area 13:27 <@ss> So tone down the black and blue? 13:27 <@ss> And post new mockups. 13:28 <@ss> Also, with an icon or without? 13:28 <@pinkerton> not sure how you'd tone it down w/out making it some sickly turquoise color 13:28 <@pinkerton> an icon might be nice if it fits in with the bg. the yellow really sticks out 13:28 <@ss> k 13:28 <@ss> I'll let Hicks figure out how to tone it down. ;) 13:28 <@ardissone|away> do we want to start color-coordinating alert icons :P 13:28 <@pinkerton> heh 13:29 <@ardissone|away> gah, i'm in such a bad mood today :( 13:29 <@ardissone|away> sorry everyone 13:29 < desmond> Colour co-ordinated alert icons might be a good idea. 13:30 < desmond> They will still be easy to see and wont stick out. 13:30 <@ardissone|away> so alret is sometimes yellow, sometimes blue? :P 13:30 <@ardissone|away> next green and chartruse>? 13:30 -!- ardissone|away is now known as ardissone|grr 13:30 <@ss> We'll let the designer design and see what he gives us. 13:31 < desmond> ardissone|grr, have some tea :) 13:31 <@ss> It might be that he creates a "popup block" graphic instead of using anything like the alert icon. 13:31 <@ardissone|grr> :) 13:31 <@ss> Alright, this meeting of four people, is adjorned (sp?). 13:31 < desmond> u 13:32 < thebot> Suggestions for 'adjorned': adjourned, adjoined, adorned, edge-grained, adjourns, adjured, adjourn... 13:32 <@ss> See you all next week. 13:32 <@ardissone|grr> on Weds 13:32 <@ss> On Wednesday, yes. 13:32 < desmond> Good meeting all, lots of chat 13:32 * desmond kicks delliott in the face 13:32 < desmond> Slacker