Status Meetings:2009-05-20:Log
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[02:36am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv. [02:37am] You changed the topic to "http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2009-05-20:Agenda". [02:37am] cl|zzz was promoted to operator by you. [10:40am] cl|zzz is now known as cl. [12:03pm] You are now known as ardissone|foraging. [12:09pm] pinkerton joined the chat room. [12:09pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by chanserv. [12:10pm] hendy joined the chat room. [12:10pm] jeff joined the chat room. [12:10pm] jeff was promoted to operator by chanserv. [12:10pm] smorgan joined the chat room. [12:10pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you. [12:10pm] hendy was promoted to operator by you. [12:10pm] smorgan: Sorry I'm late [12:10pm] murph joined the chat room. [12:10pm] murph was promoted to operator by you. [12:10pm] ardissone|foraging: no worries, i'm running late today, too [12:10pm] peeja joined the chat room. [12:10pm] peeja was promoted to operator by you. [12:11pm] cl: oh, heh, it's wednesday [12:11pm] ardissone|foraging: [12:11pm] cl: good thing i keep this tab open [12:11pm] cl: i didn't get to the downloads thing this week [12:11pm] cl: other than that, i have nothing [12:11pm] ardissone|foraging: everyone please open http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2009-05-20:Agenda in your 2.0b2 or nightly from the last 2 days [12:11pm] cl: i've been super-busy with Real Life [12:12pm] ardissone|foraging: avoiding that serial killer [12:13pm] ardissone|foraging: the big thing about 2.0b2 crashes this week [12:13pm] ardissone|foraging: is the reoccurrence of that awful 10.4 crasher in nsNativeThemeCocoa::DrawWidgetBackground / nsCSSRendering::PaintBackgroundWithSC [12:14pm] ardissone|foraging: almost 1/4 of the new crashes were in it [12:14pm] ardissone|foraging: all of them had our friend libgoogleintercept-1.9.dylib in the stack [12:15pm] ilya|adium joined the chat room. [12:15pm] ilya joined the chat room. [12:15pm] ilya was promoted to operator by you. [12:15pm] ilya|adium was promoted to operator by you. [12:15pm] pinkerton: smorgan: is that desktop? [12:15pm] ardissone|foraging: teh internets say yes [12:15pm] smorgan: y [12:15pm] pinkerton: can we tell them to uninstall it [12:15pm] cl: haha [12:16pm] pinkerton: cuz, um, that ain't getting fixed. [12:16pm] ardissone|foraging: teh internets say it's google desktop's method for crashing browsers [12:16pm] pinkerton: i guess we could be more defensive, somehow, but i'm not sure we should bother worrying about it [12:17pm] ardissone|foraging: so you do think it is helping to cause this crash? [12:17pm] pinkerton: it's probably the thumbnailing code [12:18pm] ardissone|foraging: we can't search for "foo in the stack" on crash-stats anymore, so i don't know how bad it is for firefox [12:19pm] ardissone|foraging: but someone was definitely having a bad week with it in Camino [12:19pm] pinkerton: heh [12:19pm] smorgan: IIRC the thumbnailing is reasonable, so it may be exposing a "real" bug in widgets [12:19pm] pinkerton: ah [12:19pm] smorgan: But it's been a while [12:19pm] pinkerton: but is there anything we can do about it at this stage? [12:19pm] pinkerton: since moco has moved on? [12:19pm] ardissone|foraging: is there any chance of mstange and someone from Google cooperating were I to open a bug? [12:19pm] smorgan: Probably not, no [12:20pm] smorgan: ardissone|foraging: maybe, but they'll want to work in trunk or a recent branch, right? [12:20pm] ardissone|foraging: for the initial fix, at least [12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: unless it's a big crash only on 1.9.0 [12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: which is hard to say given searchability issues on crash-stats [12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: since this has different top 3-4frames [12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: i'll see what i can find, and we can go from there [12:22pm] ardissone|foraging: anyone else have anything on b2? [12:23pm] ardissone|foraging: nothing from me on 1.6.x; we're still looking at mid-June for 1.6.8, with the next Gecko release [12:23pm] ardissone|foraging: anyone else have anything on 1.6.x? [12:24pm] ardissone|foraging: SoC [12:24pm] ardissone|foraging: starts Friday [12:25pm] ardissone|foraging: if you weren't around the other day, Dan has a blog-like page http://www.livespecimen.com/ [12:25pm] ardissone|foraging: describing what he had done through early May [12:25pm] jeff: I am moving summerofcamino.com to 2007.summerofcamino.com [12:25pm] jeff: so if he wants to move to summerofcamino.com ... its all ready [12:25pm] ardissone|foraging: smorgan: have you heard from him yet? [12:26pm] You are now known as ardissone. [12:26pm] smorgan: I just emailed him; his classes are finishing up this week [12:27pm] ardissone: ok [12:27pm] smorgan: So he should be a lot less busy RSN [12:27pm] ardissone: classes, or classes+exams? [12:27pm] smorgan: "school", so I assume the latter [12:27pm] ardissone: ok [12:28pm] ardissone: ilya: while i'm on that thought, when are you done? [12:28pm] ilya|adium: mid-june [12:28pm] ardissone: (aka 'when are you not around because of end-of-semester') [12:28pm] ardissone: wow [12:28pm] ardissone: ok [12:28pm] pinkerton: quarter system? [12:28pm] ilya|adium: yeah [12:29pm] ardissone: so, uh, we'll release 1.6.8 in your honor [12:29pm] ilya|adium: [12:29pm] ardissone: ok, moving right into that early June fun [12:29pm] ardissone: the WWDC-related gathering [12:30pm] ardissone: everyone's telling pink if they'll be at WWDC, right? [12:30pm] cl: i will not, unfortunately. [12:30pm] ardissone: (or if they already reside in the SF area ) [12:30pm] cl: (I don't think I had said one way or another until now, but it's very unlikely that I can make it.) [12:31pm] ilya|adium: I'm in the SF area [12:31pm] pinkerton: i'll be in the gutter in a pool of sick most of the week. [12:31pm] jeff: I'll be there [12:31pm] smorgan: pinkerton: sounds like a step up from your hotel last year [12:32pm] pinkerton: yes, i am much closer this year, and no longer in the tenderloin [12:32pm] pinkerton: i actually wrote a song about that hotel. [12:32pm] pinkerton: good times. [12:32pm] ardissone: pinkerton: so it looks like you have jeff, and ilya, kreeger, and ss in the area [12:33pm] pinkerton: k [12:33pm] ilya|adium: it's a kind of awkward time for me though [12:33pm] ardissone: (and maybe Dan, depending on where he goes back to) [12:33pm] ilya|adium: either during finals or right before graduation [12:33pm] jeff: psh who needs to graduate [12:34pm] ilya|adium: so whether I can actually come depends a fair bit on the timing [12:34pm] pinkerton: yeah, i hear open source pays so well [12:34pm] cl: for you googlers, maybe [12:34pm] ilya|adium: heh [12:35pm] ardissone: ok, leaving the social coordinator slot [12:35pm] ardissone: 2.0 [12:35pm] ardissone: in case you missed it, we've added a new beta [12:35pm] ardissone: all the cool kids are doing it [12:35pm] pinkerton: hotness [12:35pm] ardissone: l10n/faeture freeze moves back to b4 [12:35pm] pinkerton: is it gonna be out before wwdc? [12:36pm] ardissone: b3 aiming for end of the month [12:36pm] pinkerton: kewl [12:36pm] ardissone: with breakpad in a useable state and whatevre else small/safe we can have ready [12:36pm] ardissone: ('Allow Flash') [12:36pm] ardissone: the real blocker is getting the tree reopened [12:37pm] ilya left the chat room. (Quit: bbiab) [12:37pm] ardissone: which in turn means figuring out a perf solution of some sort [12:37pm] ilya|adium left the chat room. (Quit: bbiab) [12:37pm] ardissone: either fixing boxset, or getting Tp on another box and reconfiging [12:37pm] ardissone: we're at the mercy of mento's schedule [12:38pm] ardissone: unless we want to try falling back to Xcode 2.4.1; that I can make Sam do [12:38pm] ardissone: his schedule is typically slightly less bad than mento's [12:39pm] ardissone: murph: updates on anti-phishing, tab dragging, or keyboard loop? [12:41pm] ardissone: ok [12:41pm] murph: Still in progress refreshing the phishing bar, unfortunately, since time was hard to come by during the last week or so [12:42pm] murph: But I'm working to balance it all and finish up with that update as soon as I can [12:42pm] ardissone: k [12:42pm] ardissone: the dragging patch just needs some small (?) changes for checkin? [12:43pm] murph: oh, right, it does. I can make those changes today [12:43pm] ardissone: had you had a chance to check for the 10.4 bugs? [12:45pm] ardissone: jeff: !seen NSControl ? [12:45pm] murph: Those 10.4 ones are still on my list, I'm again without my iBook running Tiger until next week [12:45pm] jeff: I'm taking a crack at QL right now and then I *guess* I will go back to NSControl (said in high school girls voice) [12:46pm] ardissone: murph: will all luck, it'll land and fix the 10.4 bugs before you get back [12:47pm] murph: oh that'd be nice! [12:47pm] ardissone: we shall see [12:47pm] ardissone: doesn't know what to say to the high school girl [12:48pm] ardissone: but once we get b3 out, we need to be all-tabsposé, all-safebrowsing, all the time [12:48pm] jeff: pshh, Im going to my room [12:49pm] ardissone: smorgan landed the last blocker in the security exceptions thing; some nice-to-haves yet as follow-ups [12:49pm] ardissone: Breakpad is similarly in a shippable state, I think [12:50pm] ardissone: we've had 3 crashes with fully-symbolized builds as of last night [12:50pm] smorgan: w00t! [12:50pm] ardissone: my test crash and the two from https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=493905 [12:50pm] ardissone: i posted in the forum and blogged asking everyone to update [12:50pm] smorgan: But really we just need to ship b3 [12:51pm] ardissone: so that we can get a bunch of useful crashes so we can turn off the OS reporter so we can ship b3 [12:52pm] ardissone: there are still things we want from Breakpad, but if it were the end of the world, I think we could get by with where stuart has gotten us today [12:52pm] ardissone: hendy: anything new from you? alll your stuff is waiting for some form of review or boxset, right? [12:53pm] hendy: text zoom only needs a few changes [12:53pm] hendy: like moving the action/logic to BWC [12:53pm] smorgan: My goal is to drain my queue by tonight, btw [12:54pm] ardissone: [12:54pm] hendy: do we still want to keep an option modifier to temporarily invert the zoom type? [12:54pm] ardissone: i think so [12:54pm] smorgan: It may not be terribly discoverable, but it seems like it would be really useful for those who knew about it [12:54pm] ardissone: that was my understanding going in, that option would continue to do the opposite [12:54pm] smorgan: And we would have docs [12:55pm] hendy: it was pointed out that the key combo clashes w/ a system a11y combo [12:55pm] ilya|adium joined the chat room. [12:55pm] ardissone: it's not the default, so I'm less concerned [12:56pm] ilya joined the chat room. [12:56pm] ilya was promoted to operator by you. [12:56pm] smorgan: Isn't that also off by default? [12:56pm] ilya|adium was promoted to operator by you. [12:56pm] hendy: probably. ok, i'll restore the alternates. [12:57pm] ardissone: i was much more concerned when it was the only way to get text zoom working [12:57pm] cl: yeah, I also enjoy the opt modifier [12:57pm] hendy: i need to tweak the full content zoom increment too. [12:57pm] ardissone: yeah, that discussion is still proceeding in the forum [12:58pm] ilya|adium: any reason for that not to be a compounding/geometric/exponential zoom factor? [12:58pm] ardissone: (as to what people think the best initial factor) [12:58pm] ilya|adium: that way a small initial zoom lets you zoom in pretty quickly if that's your goal [12:58pm] cl: i think ilya's onto something there. [12:59pm] ardissone: is that your goal, though? [12:59pm] ilya|adium: it is indeed my goal [12:59pm] smorgan: Won't exponential zoom make it useless at the high end? [12:59pm] smorgan: If something is not quite big enough, it becomes twice as big? [12:59pm] cl: does anyone want to zoom in "only a little bit" once they've already zoomed in really far? [12:59pm] hendy: there was talk of using the gecko pref of comma-separated zoom values [12:59pm] ardissone: that sounds like the problem we have with the initial factor right now [1:00pm] ilya|adium: well, twice as big with .15 would take 5 zooms vs. 7 with non-exponential [1:00pm] smorgan: maybe I'm not clear on the suggestion [1:00pm] ilya|adium: if you're aiming for a factor of 4, you probably want to get there in more like 10 than 21 [1:01pm] ardissone: i've never wanted anything twice as big, except maybe for playing around with Pixie [1:01pm] ilya|adium: I think currently our zoom is (1 + kx) where k is the constant factor and x is the number of times you've zoomed [1:01pm] ilya|adium: and the other reasonable option is to have it be (1 + k)^x [1:01pm] hendy: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues [1:02pm] hendy: looks semi-exponential [1:02pm] ilya|adium: yeah, we could also use those if they work well [1:03pm] smorgan: Whoever wants to own this should just try some options and see what feels reasonable [1:03pm] hendy: will do [1:03pm] ardissone: cl has already reported on his downloads "progress" [1:04pm] ardissone: ilya: anything from you on downloads? [1:04pm] ilya|adium: mmm not really [1:04pm] ardissone: besides the half-dozen bugs you've fixed in the last week [1:04pm] ilya|adium: I should finish that multi-drag patch sometime [1:04pm] ardissone: that would be cool [1:04pm] ilya|adium: but I think I want to do it properly with IB, so it'll take a bit [1:05pm] ardissone: k [1:05pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 2.0 or 2.0b3? [1:05pm] ilya|adium: anything I should be taking a look at other than that? [1:05pm] ardissone: nothing jumps to my mind, no [1:05pm] ilya|adium: o.k. [1:06pm] ardissone: the incremental changes and regression fixes seem good for downloads right now [1:06pm] ardissone: and i think it's really too late to say "cross-session resumable downloads" [1:06pm] cl: if someone else can get to that downloads thing before I do, feel free. [1:07pm] ilya|adium: which one? [1:07pm] ardissone: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=407883 [1:07pm] cl: i think all it needs is a new nib and a couple code tweaks to remove the tag workaround [1:07pm] cl: (once the new nib is created with proper tags) [1:08pm] ardissone: in not-for-2.0-news [1:08pm] ardissone: we have mostly-working code for dotMac bookmark sync [1:08pm] ardissone: pinkerton: ^^^ making sure you see that [1:08pm] cl: that didn't actually cause the coder to disappear immediately after writing it, even! [1:08pm] pinkerton: wow [1:09pm] ardissone: he at least lasted long enough to post it [1:09pm] jeff: where is the sync stuff? [1:09pm] ardissone: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228123 [1:10pm] ardissone: getting the bm to reload after sync and not stomp synced changes doesn't sound like it should be insurmountable [1:10pm] jeff: ah yea just found it again ;) [1:10pm] ardissone: but then again i don't know that code, and it is Bookmarks :P [1:10pm] ardissone: GDBRW02 :P [1:10pm] ardissone: er, 03 [1:10pm] ardissone: so hopefully Alex won't vanish [1:11pm] ardissone: and will poke us for help [1:11pm] ardissone: but worst case, we have an awful lot of code on the road to sync [1:12pm] ardissone: also, a reminder to everyone to mind their r queues [1:12pm] ardissone: we'll try to get the tree reopened ASAP [1:13pm] ardissone: but if you've got something that's ready to land, why don't you tag it with checkin-needed and "[when tree reopens]" [1:13pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else today? [1:14pm] ardissone: ok then [1:14pm] ardissone: sorry for the late start and running over [1:15pm] ardissone: everyone work on those 2.0 bugs and reviews, and have a good week :)