Status Meetings:2009-05-20:Log

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[02:36am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv.
[02:37am] You changed the topic to "".
[02:37am] cl|zzz was promoted to operator by you.
[10:40am] cl|zzz is now known as cl.
[12:03pm] You are now known as ardissone|foraging.
[12:09pm] pinkerton joined the chat room.
[12:09pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:10pm] hendy joined the chat room.
[12:10pm] jeff joined the chat room.
[12:10pm] jeff was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:10pm] smorgan joined the chat room.
[12:10pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you.
[12:10pm] hendy was promoted to operator by you.
[12:10pm] smorgan: Sorry I'm late
[12:10pm] murph joined the chat room.
[12:10pm] murph was promoted to operator by you.
[12:10pm] ardissone|foraging: no worries, i'm running late today, too
[12:10pm] peeja joined the chat room.
[12:10pm] peeja was promoted to operator by you.
[12:11pm] cl: oh, heh, it's wednesday
[12:11pm] ardissone|foraging:
[12:11pm] cl: good thing i keep this tab open 
[12:11pm] cl: i didn't get to the downloads thing this week
[12:11pm] cl: other than that, i have nothing 
[12:11pm] ardissone|foraging: everyone please open in your 2.0b2 or nightly from the last 2 days 
[12:11pm] cl: i've been super-busy with Real Life
[12:12pm] ardissone|foraging: avoiding that serial killer 
[12:13pm] ardissone|foraging: the big thing about 2.0b2 crashes this week
[12:13pm] ardissone|foraging: is the reoccurrence of that awful 10.4 crasher in nsNativeThemeCocoa::DrawWidgetBackground / nsCSSRendering::PaintBackgroundWithSC
[12:14pm] ardissone|foraging: almost 1/4 of the new crashes were in it
[12:14pm] ardissone|foraging: all of them had our friend libgoogleintercept-1.9.dylib in the stack
[12:15pm] ilya|adium joined the chat room.
[12:15pm] ilya joined the chat room.
[12:15pm] ilya was promoted to operator by you.
[12:15pm] ilya|adium was promoted to operator by you.
[12:15pm] pinkerton: smorgan: is that desktop?
[12:15pm] ardissone|foraging: teh internets say yes
[12:15pm] smorgan: y
[12:15pm] pinkerton: can we tell them to uninstall it  
[12:15pm] cl: haha
[12:16pm] pinkerton: cuz, um, that ain't getting fixed.
[12:16pm] ardissone|foraging: teh internets say it's google desktop's method for crashing browsers 
[12:16pm] pinkerton: i guess we could be more defensive, somehow, but i'm not sure we should bother worrying about it
[12:17pm] ardissone|foraging: so you do think it is helping to cause this crash?
[12:17pm] pinkerton: it's probably the thumbnailing code
[12:18pm] ardissone|foraging: we can't search for "foo in the stack" on crash-stats anymore, so i don't know how bad it is for firefox
[12:19pm] ardissone|foraging: but someone was definitely having a bad week with it in Camino
[12:19pm] pinkerton: heh
[12:19pm] smorgan: IIRC the thumbnailing is reasonable, so it may be exposing a "real" bug in widgets
[12:19pm] pinkerton: ah
[12:19pm] smorgan: But it's been a while
[12:19pm] pinkerton: but is there anything we can do about it at this stage?
[12:19pm] pinkerton: since moco has moved on?
[12:19pm] ardissone|foraging: is there any chance of mstange and someone from Google cooperating were I to open a bug?
[12:19pm] smorgan: Probably not, no
[12:20pm] smorgan: ardissone|foraging: maybe, but they'll want to work in trunk or a recent branch, right?
[12:20pm] ardissone|foraging: for the initial fix, at least
[12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: unless it's a big crash only on 1.9.0
[12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: which is hard to say given searchability issues on crash-stats
[12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: since this has different top 3-4frames
[12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: i'll see what i can find, and we can go from there
[12:22pm] ardissone|foraging: anyone else have anything on b2?
[12:23pm] ardissone|foraging: nothing from me on 1.6.x; we're still looking at mid-June for 1.6.8, with the next Gecko release
[12:23pm] ardissone|foraging: anyone else have anything on 1.6.x?
[12:24pm] ardissone|foraging: SoC
[12:24pm] ardissone|foraging: starts Friday
[12:25pm] ardissone|foraging: if you weren't around the other day, Dan has a blog-like page
[12:25pm] ardissone|foraging: describing what he had done through early May
[12:25pm] jeff: I am moving to
[12:25pm] jeff: so if he wants to move to ... its all ready
[12:25pm] ardissone|foraging: smorgan: have you heard from him yet?
[12:26pm] You are now known as ardissone.
[12:26pm] smorgan: I just emailed him; his classes are finishing up this week
[12:27pm] ardissone: ok
[12:27pm] smorgan: So he should be a lot less busy RSN 
[12:27pm] ardissone: classes, or classes+exams?
[12:27pm] smorgan: "school", so I assume the latter
[12:27pm] ardissone: ok
[12:28pm] ardissone: ilya: while i'm on that thought, when are you done?
[12:28pm] ilya|adium: mid-june 
[12:28pm] ardissone: (aka 'when are you not around because of end-of-semester')
[12:28pm] ardissone: wow 
[12:28pm] ardissone: ok
[12:28pm] pinkerton: quarter system?
[12:28pm] ilya|adium: yeah
[12:29pm] ardissone: so, uh, we'll release 1.6.8 in your honor 
[12:29pm] ilya|adium:
[12:29pm] ardissone: ok, moving right into that early June fun
[12:29pm] ardissone: the WWDC-related gathering
[12:30pm] ardissone: everyone's telling pink if they'll be at WWDC, right?
[12:30pm] cl: i will not, unfortunately.
[12:30pm] ardissone: (or if they already reside in the SF area  )
[12:30pm] cl: (I don't think I had said one way or another until now, but it's very unlikely that I can make it.)
[12:31pm] ilya|adium: I'm in the SF area
[12:31pm] pinkerton: i'll be in the gutter in a pool of sick most of the week.
[12:31pm] jeff: I'll be there
[12:31pm] smorgan: pinkerton: sounds like a step up from your hotel last year 
[12:32pm] pinkerton: yes, i am much closer this year, and no longer in the tenderloin
[12:32pm] pinkerton: i actually wrote a song about that hotel.
[12:32pm] pinkerton: good times.
[12:32pm] ardissone: pinkerton: so it looks like you have jeff, and ilya, kreeger, and ss in the area
[12:33pm] pinkerton: k
[12:33pm] ilya|adium: it's a kind of awkward time for me though
[12:33pm] ardissone: (and maybe Dan, depending on where he goes back to)
[12:33pm] ilya|adium: either during finals or right before graduation
[12:33pm] jeff: psh who needs to graduate
[12:34pm] ilya|adium: so whether I can actually come depends a fair bit on the timing
[12:34pm] pinkerton: yeah, i hear open source pays so well
[12:34pm] cl: for you googlers, maybe 
[12:34pm] ilya|adium: heh
[12:35pm] ardissone: ok, leaving the social coordinator slot
[12:35pm] ardissone: 2.0
[12:35pm] ardissone: in case you missed it, we've added a new beta
[12:35pm] ardissone: all the cool kids are doing it
[12:35pm] pinkerton: hotness
[12:35pm] ardissone: l10n/faeture freeze moves back to b4
[12:35pm] pinkerton: is it gonna be out before wwdc?
[12:36pm] ardissone: b3 aiming for end of the month
[12:36pm] pinkerton: kewl
[12:36pm] ardissone: with breakpad in a useable state and whatevre else small/safe we can have ready
[12:36pm] ardissone: ('Allow Flash')
[12:36pm] ardissone: the real blocker is getting the tree reopened
[12:37pm] ilya left the chat room. (Quit: bbiab)
[12:37pm] ardissone: which in turn means figuring out a perf solution of some sort
[12:37pm] ilya|adium left the chat room. (Quit: bbiab)
[12:37pm] ardissone: either fixing boxset, or getting Tp on another box and reconfiging
[12:37pm] ardissone: we're at the mercy of mento's schedule
[12:38pm] ardissone: unless we want to try falling back to Xcode 2.4.1; that I can make Sam do
[12:38pm] ardissone: his schedule is typically slightly less bad than mento's 
[12:39pm] ardissone: murph: updates on anti-phishing, tab dragging, or keyboard loop?
[12:41pm] ardissone: ok
[12:41pm] murph: Still in progress refreshing the phishing bar, unfortunately, since time was hard to come by during the last week or so
[12:42pm] murph: But I'm working to balance it all and finish up with that update as soon as I can
[12:42pm] ardissone: k
[12:42pm] ardissone: the dragging patch just needs some small (?) changes for checkin?
[12:43pm] murph: oh, right, it does.  I can make those changes today
[12:43pm] ardissone: had you had a chance to check for the 10.4 bugs?
[12:45pm] ardissone: jeff: !seen NSControl ?
[12:45pm] murph: Those 10.4 ones are still on my list, I'm again without my iBook running Tiger until next week
[12:45pm] jeff: I'm taking a crack at QL right now and then I *guess* I will go back to NSControl (said in high school girls voice)
[12:46pm] ardissone: murph: will all luck, it'll land and fix the 10.4 bugs before you get back 
[12:47pm] murph: oh that'd be nice!
[12:47pm] ardissone: we shall see
[12:47pm] ardissone: doesn't know what to say to the high school girl 
[12:48pm] ardissone: but once we get b3 out, we need to be all-tabsposé, all-safebrowsing, all the time 
[12:48pm] jeff: pshh, Im going to my room
[12:49pm] ardissone: smorgan landed the last blocker in the security exceptions thing; some nice-to-haves yet as follow-ups
[12:49pm] ardissone: Breakpad is similarly in a shippable state, I think
[12:50pm] ardissone: we've had 3 crashes with fully-symbolized builds as of last night
[12:50pm] smorgan: w00t!
[12:50pm] ardissone: my test crash and the two from
[12:50pm] ardissone: i posted in the forum and blogged asking everyone to update
[12:50pm] smorgan: But really we just need to ship b3 
[12:51pm] ardissone: so that we can get a bunch of useful crashes so we can turn off the OS reporter so we can ship b3
[12:52pm] ardissone: there are still things we want from Breakpad, but if it were the end of the world, I think we could get by with where stuart has gotten us today 
[12:52pm] ardissone: hendy: anything new from you?  alll your stuff is waiting for some form of review or boxset, right?
[12:53pm] hendy: text zoom only needs a few changes
[12:53pm] hendy: like moving the action/logic to BWC
[12:53pm] smorgan: My goal is to drain my queue by tonight, btw
[12:54pm] ardissone:
[12:54pm] hendy: do we still want to keep an option modifier to temporarily invert the zoom type?
[12:54pm] ardissone: i think so
[12:54pm] smorgan: It may not be terribly discoverable, but it seems like it would be really useful for those who knew about it
[12:54pm] ardissone: that was my understanding going in, that option would continue to do the opposite
[12:54pm] smorgan: And we would have docs
[12:55pm] hendy: it was pointed out that the key combo clashes w/ a system a11y combo
[12:55pm] ilya|adium joined the chat room.
[12:55pm] ardissone: it's not the default, so I'm less concerned
[12:56pm] ilya joined the chat room.
[12:56pm] ilya was promoted to operator by you.
[12:56pm] smorgan: Isn't that also off by default?
[12:56pm] ilya|adium was promoted to operator by you.
[12:56pm] hendy: probably. ok, i'll restore the alternates.
[12:57pm] ardissone: i was much more concerned when it was the only way to get text zoom working 
[12:57pm] cl: yeah, I also enjoy the opt modifier
[12:57pm] hendy: i need to tweak the full content zoom increment too.
[12:57pm] ardissone: yeah, that discussion is still proceeding in the forum
[12:58pm] ilya|adium: any reason for that not to be a compounding/geometric/exponential zoom factor?
[12:58pm] ardissone: (as to what people think the best initial factor)
[12:58pm] ilya|adium: that way a small initial zoom lets you zoom in pretty quickly if that's your goal
[12:58pm] cl: i think ilya's onto something there.
[12:59pm] ardissone: is that your goal, though?
[12:59pm] ilya|adium: it is indeed my goal
[12:59pm] smorgan: Won't exponential zoom make it useless at the high end?
[12:59pm] smorgan: If something is not quite big enough, it becomes twice as big?
[12:59pm] cl: does anyone want to zoom in "only a little bit" once they've already zoomed in really far?
[12:59pm] hendy: there was talk of using the gecko pref of comma-separated zoom values
[12:59pm] ardissone: that sounds like the problem we have with the initial factor right now 
[1:00pm] ilya|adium: well, twice as big with .15 would take 5 zooms vs. 7 with non-exponential
[1:00pm] smorgan: maybe I'm not clear on the suggestion
[1:00pm] ilya|adium: if you're aiming for a factor of 4, you probably want to get there in more like 10 than 21
[1:01pm] ardissone: i've never wanted anything twice as big, except maybe for playing around with Pixie 
[1:01pm] ilya|adium: I think currently our zoom is (1 + kx) where k is the constant factor and x is the number of times you've zoomed
[1:01pm] ilya|adium: and the other reasonable option is to have it be (1 + k)^x
[1:01pm] hendy:
[1:02pm] hendy: looks semi-exponential
[1:02pm] ilya|adium: yeah, we could also use those if they work well
[1:03pm] smorgan: Whoever wants to own this should just try some options and see what feels reasonable
[1:03pm] hendy: will do
[1:03pm] ardissone: cl has already reported on his downloads "progress"
[1:04pm] ardissone: ilya: anything from you on downloads?
[1:04pm] ilya|adium: mmm not really
[1:04pm] ardissone: besides the half-dozen bugs you've fixed in the last week 
[1:04pm] ilya|adium: I should finish that multi-drag patch sometime
[1:04pm] ardissone: that would be cool 
[1:04pm] ilya|adium: but I think I want to do it properly with IB, so it'll take a bit
[1:05pm] ardissone: k
[1:05pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 2.0 or 2.0b3?
[1:05pm] ilya|adium: anything I should be taking a look at other than that?
[1:05pm] ardissone: nothing jumps to my mind, no
[1:05pm] ilya|adium: o.k.
[1:06pm] ardissone: the incremental changes and regression fixes seem good for downloads right now
[1:06pm] ardissone: and i think it's really too late to say "cross-session resumable downloads" 
[1:06pm] cl: if someone else can get to that downloads thing before I do, feel free.
[1:07pm] ilya|adium: which one?
[1:07pm] ardissone:
[1:07pm] cl: i think all it needs is a new nib and a couple code tweaks to remove the tag workaround
[1:07pm] cl: (once the new nib is created with proper tags)
[1:08pm] ardissone: in not-for-2.0-news
[1:08pm] ardissone: we have mostly-working code for dotMac bookmark sync
[1:08pm] ardissone: pinkerton: ^^^ making sure you see that 
[1:08pm] cl: that didn't actually cause the coder to disappear immediately after writing it, even!
[1:08pm] pinkerton: wow
[1:09pm] ardissone: he at least lasted long enough to post it
[1:09pm] jeff: where is the sync stuff?
[1:09pm] ardissone:
[1:10pm] ardissone: getting the bm to reload after sync and not stomp synced changes doesn't sound like it should be insurmountable
[1:10pm] jeff: ah yea just found it again ;)
[1:10pm] ardissone: but then again i don't know that code, and it is Bookmarks :P
[1:10pm] ardissone: GDBRW02 :P
[1:10pm] ardissone: er, 03
[1:10pm] ardissone: so hopefully Alex won't vanish
[1:11pm] ardissone: and will poke us for help
[1:11pm] ardissone: but worst case, we have an awful lot of code on the road to sync
[1:12pm] ardissone: also, a reminder to everyone to mind their r queues
[1:12pm] ardissone: we'll try to get the tree reopened ASAP
[1:13pm] ardissone: but if you've got something that's ready to land, why don't you tag it with checkin-needed and "[when tree reopens]"
[1:13pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else today?
[1:14pm] ardissone: ok then
[1:14pm] ardissone: sorry for the late start and running over
[1:15pm] ardissone: everyone work on those 2.0 bugs and reviews, and have a good week :)