Status Meetings:2010-02-24:Log

Log from #camino-mtg starting 2010-02-24 15:43:56 -0500

Link to a time in the log by using a URL like http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2010-02-24:Log#12:00

15:43		» ardissone was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
15:44		» sauron joined the chat room.
15:44		» sauron was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
15:44		» ardissone changed the topic to "http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2010-02-24:Agenda".
15:54		» pink_mbp joined the chat room.
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15:59		» pink_mbp was promoted to operator by ardissone.
15:59		» hendy was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:00		» smorgan joined the chat room.
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16:00		» kreeger joined the chat room.
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16:00		» ilya joined the chat room.
16:00		» ilya was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:01	ardissone:	give a couple of minutes to see if cl or Wevah show up
16:05	ardissone:	ok
16:05	ardissone:	everyone please open your Camino 2.0.2 or later :P to http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2010-02-24:Agenda
16:05	ardissone:	first off, we released 2.0.2 yesterday
16:05	ardissone:	as far as i can tell, it went off without a hitch
16:06	pink_mbp:	yay!
16:07	ardissone:	i haven't really heard anything one way or the other
16:08	pink_mbp:	i guess that's good news
16:08	ardissone:	yeah
16:08	ardissone:	the crash situation has changed significantly since last night :P
16:09	ardissone:	there are now 144 crashes instead of 53
16:09	pink_mbp:	ew :(
16:09	ardissone:	the facebook plug-in crash has been moved down a couple of spots :p
16:10	ardissone:	and a webex plugin crash has appeared :P
16:11	ardissone:	ilya was going to poke facebook, and Sam said damon would probably poke schrep, too
16:11	pink_mbp:	k
16:11	ilya:	yeah, I poked a guy @ Facebook
16:11	ardissone:	ilya: thanks :)
16:11	ilya:	np :)
16:12	ardissone:	Armen's crash is rising again; i started the branch approval dance for that yesterday
16:12	ardissone:	in retrospect should have minibranched it, but the rise-to-top in 2.0.1 came very late
16:13	ardissone:	anyway, we'll have a better picture next week
16:13	ardissone:	anyone have anything else on 2.0.2?
16:14	ardissone:	nothing really new on 1.6.anything
16:14	ardissone:	there was an NSPR upgrade yesterday; it didn't set our boxes on fire this time :P
16:15	smorgan:	When will 1.6 die?
16:15	ardissone:	Google seems to be aggressively dropping support for Gecko 1.8.1
16:15	ardissone:	next Gecko release
16:15	smorgan:	For realz this time?
16:16	ardissone:	?
16:16	smorgan:	Because it feels like we've had a number of "last" 1.8.1 updates
16:16	ardissone:	well, Gecko 1.8.1 will keep going for 6mos after Tb3,.0
16:16	ardissone:	but 1.6.x will stop first 1.8.1 release after 2.0
16:16	ardissone:	;)
16:17	smorgan:	Ah, I see
16:17	ardissone:	unless you are dying to support some old G3s in your house or something ;)
16:18	ardissone:	anyone have anything else on 1.6.x?
16:20	ardissone:	on 2.0.3
16:20	ardissone:	we talked about the docshell
16:20	ardissone:	last we heard from cl, he'd done nothing about fixing the Flash exceptions list patch
16:20	ardissone:	smorgan: i assume no updates from you on the plug-ins or we'd've seen something ;)
16:21	smorgan:	Correct
16:21	ardissone:	anything else on 2.0.x?
16:22	ardissone:	ok, on to 2.1
16:23	pink_mbp:	ship it!
16:23	ardissone:	haha
16:23	ardissone:	pink_mbp: have you tried to use it? :P ;)
16:23	ardissone:	at least with a history of more than 3 days ;)
16:23	smorgan:	Are you kidding? We're lucky if he's running 2.0.x
16:23	ardissone:	:)
16:24	ardissone:	we haven't heard from dan since smorgan finished the reviews on the perf patch
16:25	pink_mbp:	i'm running 2.0.1
16:25	ardissone:	it's on my list to poke him, but if someone else has a shorter list, please feel free to do so
16:25	ardissone:	pink_mbp: you should be hearing about 2.0.2 any time now :)
16:25	pink_mbp:	k
16:26	ardissone:	actually, it's been more than 24 hours since the release
16:26	smorgan:	Laptop
16:26	ardissone:	sleep?
16:26	smorgan:	Remember we use uptime not wall time
16:26	ardissone:	oh, ok
16:27	ardissone:	did not know that
16:27	smorgan:	Because Sparkle hasn't worked around NSTimer stupidity
16:27	ardissone:	heh
16:27	smorgan:	If you quit and relaunch, it's wall time
16:27	smorgan:	Because we compare dates
16:27	ardissone:	ok
16:27	smorgan:	But if you set a timer for 24 hours, it waits until it has clocked 24 hours of running time
16:28	smorgan:	It's unfortunate
16:28	ardissone:	well, perhaps sometime this week pink will move to 2.0.2, then :)
16:28	ardissone:	at any rate
16:29	pink_mbp:	i'm also travelling and not on my personal laptop
16:29	pink_mbp:	so all bets are off ;)
16:29	ardissone:	kreeger said he made some progress on reviewing the history deMorkification patch over the weekend
16:29	ardissone:	kreeger: any estimates about completion?
16:30		» Armen joined the chat room.
16:31	ardissone:	the next thing we really need to look at is 1.9.2
16:31	smorgan:	At what point can patches start getting reviews and then landing in hg?
16:32	smorgan:	So there's not just a monstrous mega-patch floating around?
16:32	ardissone:	well, most of the megapatch is history
16:32	ardissone:	my latest run with repo conversion actually turned out worse, tbh
16:33	ardissone:	more checkins were split up into multiple changesets :/
16:33	ardissone:	we may just have to live with that if we want history/blame; dunno
16:34	ardissone:	(and i maintain we do want them, since bonsai won't be around forever, as the recent crash showed)
16:34	ardissone:	i also haven't had a chance to talk to mento yet about build system hacks
16:35	ardissone:	but what i told hendy the other day is that once history lands on cvs, i'll merge it and at least have a testing repo against which we can diff and to which we'll push patches
16:35	smorgan:	Do we need a build system to start using the repo?
16:36	smorgan:	Okay
16:36	smorgan:	We should probably start getting reviews of 1.9.x patches, to prep for landing them
16:36	smorgan:	They seem have not been getting review flags from what I've seen
16:36	ardissone:	probably not, but we'll need a build system before we do a top-level repo, because we need to import something that works there
16:37	ardissone:	right
16:37	ardissone:	so
16:37	ardissone:	we all think 1.9.2 is a reasonable/do-able target?
16:37	hendy:	yep
16:37	ardissone:	for 2.1's gecko
16:38	smorgan:	Has anything that seems unsurmountable or really mysterious come up?
16:38	ardissone:	i'm sure we'll continue to find things over time, but basically we had testers find (small) stuff the first week, and nothing new since then
16:38	smorgan:	I haven't been following everything, but the worst I saw was the horrible autorelease pool stuff
16:38	ardissone:	http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/User:Sardisson/Gecko_1.9.2_Bugs
16:38	smorgan:	And that seems to be on track
16:39	ardissone:	yeah, i haven't crashed once since applying the hackpatch for that ;)
16:39	hendy:	same
16:39	ardissone:	but no, i don't think there's anything insurmountable on that list
16:39	ardissone:	focus stuff might be hairy, but smaug seemed willing to help
16:40	ardissone:	and it's mostly minor things AFAICT
16:41	ardissone:	so, what i'd like to do is get 2 new branches in bugzilla, 1.9.0 and 1.9.2
16:41	ardissone:	1.9.0 is basically for 2.0.x-only things
16:41	ardissone:	1.9.2 will be for 1.9.2 things
16:41	ardissone:	trunk/unspecified will continue to be "everywhere", with trunk also meaning 1.9.3 once we start to play with that
16:42	ardissone:	that will get rid of all the silly whiteboard [1.9.x]
16:42		» Wevah joined the chat room.
16:42		» Wevah was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:42	Wevah:	(sorry; stuff happened)
16:42	ardissone:	no worries
16:43	ardissone:	like i said, history is the big blocking point for committing to an hg repo patch-by-patch
16:44	ardissone:	anything else on Gecko 1.9.2?
16:46	ardissone:	i want to run through a couple more items and the come back to autocomplete if we still have some time
16:46	ardissone:	reminder: post project ideas for SoC on the scratchpad
16:46	ardissone:	it's about March, so I assume it's about time for things to start happening
16:47	ardissone:	reminder: today's the last day for voting in the About.com awards
16:47	ardissone:	Best Independent Browser: http://browsers.about.com/od/allaboutwebbrowsers/ss/2010-readers-choice-awards-web-browsers-voting_7.htm
16:47	ardissone:	Best Mac Browser: http://macs.about.com/od/readertoreader/ss/readers-choice-2010-vote_8.htm
16:47	ardissone:	no chrome in either category, so even the Googlers can vote Camino both places ;)
16:48	ardissone:	ss: AppZapper?1
16:49	Wevah:	!!!1``
16:49	ardissone:	er, um, also on 1.9.2: yes, hendy and I should start getting reviews on the discrete patches we have ready
16:50	ardissone:	since the review/sr queues are pretty light (except for all the icons r?me :P )
16:50	ardissone:	OK, want to talk a little bit about autocomplete
16:51	ardissone:	now that i've been using it full-time for two weeks
16:51	ardissone:	besides the perf and the auto-opening window re-regression
16:51	ardissone:	the window layout isn't very useful/helpful to me
16:52	ardissone:	i've realized that a lot of my bookmarks are like dog-ears in an enycylopedia
16:52	ardissone:	i don't want to visit them every day, but when I want to find something about X, i know right where to go
16:53	ardissone:	unfortunately, they come up and take the top 5 places
16:53	ardissone:	so autocomplete is a whole lot less useful to me
16:54	smorgan:	I'd always thought we should go to an integrated ranking system once the rest was done
16:54	smorgan:	We just didn't get that far yet
16:54	ardissone:	one list with 10 items?
16:55	ardissone:	i imagine that would work for me
16:55	smorgan:	Right
16:56		» cl joined the chat room.
16:56		» cl was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:56	Armen:	smorgan: you mean before the new autocomplete gets released? or just at some point down the line when we got to it?
16:56	smorgan:	I meant we talked about it back during SoC
16:57	ardissone:	as "if the perf hadn't sucked, dan would have gotten to it in the summer" ?
16:59	ardissone:	anyway, as long as we aren't dead set on keeping the current layout without some option for more-history-focused, I'm OK
17:00	ardissone:	i thought i remembered some reason we wanted the sections rather than an integrated list, but maybe it was just expediency?
17:00	smorgan:	I forget, but I always wanted to go to integrated
17:00	smorgan:	And I think it was going to be part of his later ranking work
17:01	ardissone:	OK
17:01	Armen:	just wanted to say that i am with ardissone on this one. autocomplete has always been history-based so all of a sudden making bookmarks the top match is a significant shift in how it's used or designed. as long as we're moving toward an integrated and better-ranked matching system i'm looking forward to it
17:02	ardissone:	let's file a bug on the integrated layout tied to better ranking and let it attract gentle comments; i don't see a bug for either in summerofcamino.com list
17:03	cl:	I find the separation irritating
17:03	cl:	I don't mind having bookmarks autocompleted (though I don't have much use for it myself), but I think integration is definitely the way to go
17:03	ardissone:	philippe last night really liked the current setup, but it was late and i didn't really press him for more details on why
17:04	ardissone:	i certainly find it odd none of our nightly users have complained but a bunch of us have ;)
17:04	ardissone:	anyway
17:04	cl:	if someone uses autocomplete primarily for stuff that's in their bookmarks, or keeps very little history, I can see why they'd like what we have now
17:05	cl:	as in, "yay, I can now use autocomplete whereas it was useless to me before"
17:05	cl:	but yeah, that's a good point that we're the only ones who hate it :-p
17:05	ardissone:	mhm; in theory the bookmarks would be well-ranked then in the combined view, so it should be OK for them
17:05	cl:	Right.
17:05	cl:	Which is why I think integration is important.
17:06	ardissone:	but that's why filing a bug will be good; we can collect some use-cases from people who really like the current layout and make sure that fixing it for us doesn't hurt them
17:06	Armen:	yeah, i think a well-done combined view should be useful for both types of users, as opposed to favoring one over the other by splitting them up and ordering them one way or the other
17:06	ardissone:	anyone have anything new to add on autocomplete?
17:07	ardissone:	ilya, hendy, cl: any of you have anything to report this week?
17:07	cl:	too much other stuff going on at the moment
17:08	hendy:	i've just been making patches to fix things broken on 1.9.2
17:09	hendy:	looks like my about:config patch won't actually make it in a shipping product :(
17:09	ardissone:	yeah, that sucks :(
17:09	ardissone:	ok, anyone have anything else on anything else today?
17:11	ardissone:	all right then, good meeting; everyone keep working on those 2.1 patches/reviews, and have a good week! :)