Status Meetings:2006-12-06:Log

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[12:05pm] pinkerton: sorry away
[12:06pm] max: morning everyone
[12:06pm] pinkerton: and going away again,, i'll scan the channel when i get back
[12:06pm] max: put the topic in your browsers please
[12:06pm] max: hopefully camino...
[12:06pm] cbarrett: heh
[12:06pm] cl: haha
[12:06pm] cl: fires up Opera
[12:06pm] cbarrett: starts up Mosaic
[12:06pm] max: first up in camino 1.1
[12:06pm] cl: opens MacWWW on an SE
[12:06pm] max: we had a couple of our top crashers move to core
[12:07pm] pinkerton: fires up Netscape 5
[12:07pm] ardissone|food: they're just stiing there
[12:07pm] max: we can hope that they'll be triaged appropriately, but it'd be better if we could ping someone in core to look at them
[12:07pm] cl: well, one's assigned to Josh
[12:07pm] cl: and since it's in Widget:Cocoa, that's probably appropriate
[12:07pm] max: it's assigned by default to him
[12:07pm] ardissone|food: that's just c-wdiget default
[12:07pm] cl: but it doesn't guarantee it'll get looked at 
[12:08pm] cl: regardless, he and mento are probably the two most likely candidates to fix that
[12:08pm] cl: maybe hwaara
[12:08pm] ardissone|food: the other is an xpcom crash on shutdown
[12:08pm] max: until we know exactly what's causing it, i'm not sure anyone's most likely to fix it
[12:08pm] cl: 359488 is at least something a couple devs have seen
[12:09pm] cl: and we have some decent crashlogs, and some advice on further triaging
[12:09pm] cl: the other one, well, who knows.
[12:09pm] max: is anyone willing to run with NSZombieEnabled=YES and try and get it?
[12:09pm] cl: if I knew how to do it, and had ever been able to repro, I'd be happy to.
[12:10pm] cbarrett: Same here.
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: i haven't seen it in ages 
[12:10pm] cl: looks at ss and hwaara
[12:10pm] max: ss isn't here, of course
[12:10pm] cl: right. 
[12:10pm] max: so don't count on that
[12:10pm] cl: neither is hwaara
[12:10pm] cl: someone poke him to try NSZombieEnabled, since he said he was seeing it every day
[12:11pm] max: sounds good
[12:11pm] max: i'm not sure what to do about the other crash
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: the other one is partially a question for mento and pinkerton 
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: who owns that code that we should ping?
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: i've never seen that crash
[12:12pm] max: waits for mento and pinkerton to respond
[12:12pm] max: i think i've seen it once
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: but talkback sees a good deal of it
[12:12pm] cl: is there any chance that the related bug mentioned there really is related?
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: it was bad late summer, vanished, and came back
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: cl: the other is a gtk bug
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: from 2005
[12:13pm] max: cl: yes, there is a chance
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: so possibly, but the likliness is not high imo
[12:13pm] cl: ardissone|food: right, but the top five frames on the stack are the same
[12:13pm] cl: so there's something in the underlying code that's fucking up
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: well, the patch to that bug is to gtk stuff
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: so even if it lands, it won't help us or fix the issue
[12:14pm] max: yeah, but whatever they're doing we might need to do
[12:14pm] max: (or some thing)
[12:14pm] cl: dbaron, bryner
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: mento: who owns xpcom and/or should we ping
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: pinkerton: ^^^
[12:14pm] cl: might know something, as they were cc'd to the other bug
[12:14pm] cl: by blizzard
[12:15pm] ardissone|food:    
[12:15pm] max: dougt
[12:15pm] max: dougt owns it
[12:15pm] pinkerton: back
[12:15pm] max: darin, dbradley, and alecf are peers
[12:15pm] ardissone|food: also, i think it'd be better if pink or mento did the pinging
[12:15pm] max: i concur
[12:15pm] cl: sounds good
[12:16pm] pinkerton: i can ask darin. is there a specific bug?
[12:16pm] mento: reads the crashreporter log
[12:16pm] cl: 349463
[12:16pm] ardissone|food:    
[12:16pm] pinkerton: ok
[12:16pm] cl: and similar 236688
[12:16pm] pinkerton: looks
[12:16pm] pinkerton: we're not seeing it at all in ff?
[12:16pm] ardissone|food: looks, but i don't think so
[12:17pm] mento: there's java at play in the first crashreporter log
[12:17pm] ardissone|food: oh, i looked the other day
[12:17pm] ardissone|food: the stack sig is in fx, but the stack itself is very different
[12:17pm] ardissone|food: so no, not really
[12:17pm] pinkerton: hm
[12:17pm] pinkerton: what should i ask darin?
[12:19pm] ardissone|food: how to fix it 
[12:19pm] pinkerton: lol ok
[12:19pm] ardissone|food: i have no idea 
[12:19pm] ardissone|food: hence the bugging of Cm leads
[12:20pm] ardissone|food: we ready for the next item?
[12:21pm] cl: sure
[12:21pm] pinkerton: ok, ping'd darin, cc'd mento
[12:21pm] max: camino 1.1a2
[12:21pm] ardissone|food: pinkerton: ty
[12:21pm] max: we're waiting on kqueue mainly
[12:21pm] max: is it worth picking a date to work toward?
[12:21pm] pinkerton: dec 15?
[12:22pm] max: that was recommended, yeah
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: i think it'd be useful
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: but then i wrote that item 
[12:22pm] mento: december 15
[12:22pm] pinkerton: sounds good, let's draw a line in the sand
[12:22pm] max: let's do it then
[12:22pm] max: a2 will be on dec 15 pending kqueu
[12:22pm] max: kqueue too
[12:22pm] mento: both
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: but we need to drive kqueue as well
[12:22pm] cl: how close is that to being ready?
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: it's gotten a review
[12:23pm] max: needs a respin, i believe
[12:23pm] cl: I think kreeger said he had addressed everything except one thing
[12:23pm] max: hopefully kreeger will have some time
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: someone said it works, which is also always good
[12:23pm] pinkerton: i put a1 on amo's laptop last weekend. she noticed we were blocking popups, and thought that maybe we wren't before because she never saw the old block notification. 
[12:23pm] cl: yeah, he's doing finals this week
[12:23pm] cl: and he should be getting traction on Camino stuff by early next week
[12:24pm] cl: if not by the weekend
[12:24pm] ardissone|food: pinkerton: has she started to complain about seeing the bar on all the @#$#@ time? 
[12:24pm] smorgan joined the chat room.
[12:24pm] pinkerton: heh, not yet. we'll see
[12:24pm] max: it'd also be good to get the popup blocker bugs that are in progress finished up by then
[12:24pm] cl: uh-huh
[12:24pm] max: smorgan: dec 15 is tenative a2
[12:24pm] ardissone|food: mhm
[12:24pm] smorgan: Whee, traffic
[12:24pm] ardissone|food:                           
[12:24pm] max: (that's where we are in the agenda)
[12:25pm] ardissone|food: and about to pepper you 
[12:25pm] cl: smorgan: kreeger said he had addressed your review comments in a not-yet-posted version of the kqueue patch, right?
[12:25pm] cl: ISTR he mentioned that in #camino a little while ago
[12:25pm] smorgan: Sounds familiar
[12:25pm] cl: OK.
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: smorgan: how's the keychain stealing fix coming?
[12:26pm] cl: took the words right outta my mouth
[12:26pm] cbarrett: perks up
[12:26pm] smorgan: Haven't had much time, but it should be pretty quick to do
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: for security reasons, it'd be good to have that in a2, too
[12:26pm] max: (and 1.0.4)
[12:26pm] cl: Keychain Services landed on 1.8.0 branch this morning, btw.
[12:27pm] ardissone|food: um, 1.8
[12:27pm] cl: er, 1.8 branch
[12:27pm] smorgan: Yeah, I finally had time to get that put together
[12:27pm] cl: so 1.1a2 should be good. 1.0.4, on the other hand...
[12:28pm] cl: moving on?
[12:29pm] max: sure
[12:29pm] max: 1.0.4
[12:29pm] max: i doubt we'll make the same release date as fx
[12:29pm] cl: what's going to hold us up?
[12:29pm] max: trying to do two releases on the same day isn't good... 
[12:29pm] ardissone|food: no
[12:30pm] cl: other than cross-site keychain
[12:30pm] cl: (should that block 1.0.4?)
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: we'll have to minibranch again, regardless
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: which will need some mento time
[12:30pm] max: cross-site keychain and getting everything else checked in (or determining of said things are actually blocking)
[12:30pm] smorgan: keychain would be simple if we land KS there
[12:30pm] cl: we have four bugs nominated that aren't fixed.
[12:30pm] cl: what are those four bugs?
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: cl: they keep getting nom
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: regressions we shippied in 1.0
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: that no one looks at
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: and the CJK font fix
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: which is 1.8.x branch only at this point...
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: anyway
[12:32pm] ardissone|food: can we do the 22nd for 1.0.4?
[12:32pm] ardissone|food: or is that too far into crazyland?
[12:32pm] max: that's reasonable
[12:32pm] pinkerton: it might be
[12:32pm] max: it depends on who's driving it
[12:32pm] max: and how busy they are with holiday stuff
[12:32pm] ardissone|food: mento: ?
[12:33pm] You are now known as ardissone.
[12:33pm] cl: one of those four is the kqueue bug
[12:34pm] ardissone: it shouldn't be
[12:34pm] ardissone: that should have been minused
[12:34pm] max: i doubt it is
[12:34pm] cl: I'll do taht, then.
[12:34pm] max: yeah, it's not in my query
[12:34pm] cl: oh, it *is*. never mind. 
[12:34pm] ardissone: slaps cl 
[12:34pm] cl: someone give me a query for this
[12:34pm] ardissone: sam and i usually do the +/- on the 1.0.x, and that's not hard
[12:35pm] max:    
[12:35pm] ardissone: i can do that part still
[12:35pm] ardissone: there are probably only 2-3 that will land iirc
[12:35pm] max: more than that
[12:35pm] cl: if we have a patch for the bookmarks bug, by all means, let's do it
[12:35pm] ardissone: an ad-blocking combo
[12:35pm] max: four adblocking bugs 
[12:35pm] cl: but gimme a fuggin break, we have no idea 
[12:35pm] ardissone: oh
[12:35pm] ardissone: mhh
[12:36pm] max: and the eula one
[12:36pm] max: anyway, let's move on
[12:36pm] ardissone: smorgan: could we land bookmarks backup on 1.0.x?
[12:36pm] smorgan: Yeah, that would be good
[12:36pm] max: we can do triaging/driving for 1.0.4 later
[12:36pm] ardissone: right
[12:36pm] max: let's skip to the bookmark loss bug
[12:37pm] max: i'm going to quote here:
[12:37pm] max: "A user who's been useful in the past (sending info and console logs) hypothesizes that this is related to Camino being in the login items - she saw it twice, and since removing it from login items hasn't seen it again. Is it even remotely possible that they're related?"
[12:37pm] max: smorgan, pinkerton, mento: ^^ ?
[12:37pm] smorgan: I would bet money against that
[12:37pm] cl: I should note that since restoring it to her login items, she was able to repro the bug *again*.
[12:38pm] cl: not that I'm saying that proves they're related, but that she seems to have reliable conditions for reproducing.
[12:38pm] ardissone: cl: ping the thread on the forum about that and see if anyone else is doing that
[12:38pm] smorgan: I'm going to fix my logging in a minute
[12:38pm] cl: wilco
[12:38pm] ardissone: again, not that it proves anything
[12:38pm] max: i wonder what her other startup items are
[12:38pm] smorgan: So we get the message I actually wanted
[12:38pm] ardissone: smorgan: 
[12:39pm] pinkerton: i wonder if we're wiping it at startup somehow because we've started earlier than expected?
[12:40pm] smorgan: But we've seen logging showing failure to write at the same time that the 0-byte file says it was last modified
[12:40pm] smorgan: And the bookmarks backup seems to have worked
[12:40pm] smorgan: Which if it were a startup problem I would think would also have failed
[12:41pm] smorgan: Unless it's a different problem with similar symptoms, of course
[12:41pm] ardissone: gotta run
[12:42pm] pinkerton: ok
[12:42pm] pinkerton: just guessin'
[12:42pm] cl: yeah, i may have too soon-ish too
[12:42pm] cl: can we skip down to bug 350733 real quick and then I can get out of here and get a new muffler?
[12:43pm] max: sure
[12:43pm] cl: OK.
[12:43pm] max:    
[12:44pm] cl: I'm against doing that. I have several arguments against it but most people here have heard them already 
[12:44pm] cl: pinkerton: what's your thought on that?
[12:45pm] cl: smorgan: you too
[12:45pm] cl: mento: you too 
[12:45pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by cl.
[12:45pm] cl: if there's a compelling reason to do it, I'm all ears.
[12:46pm] smorgan: Eh
[12:47pm] ardissone: consistency with other menus of history items
[12:47pm] cl: that's an enthusiastic reaction 
[12:47pm] You are now known as ardissone|away.
[12:47pm] cl: I don't put much stock in the consistency argument, largely because we've worked really hard to address all these inconsistencies and I think it would be bad to introduce one deliberately.
[12:48pm] smorgan: There's an inconsistency either way
[12:48pm] cl: Yeah. The question is, which one is worse?
[12:50pm] cl: anyway, you guys go ahead and discuss. I'm going to get a new muffler. 
[12:50pm] cl is now known as cl|muffler.
[12:51pm] max: i think we could table that for this meeting and look at it again later. no one has strong opinions either way at the moment
[12:51pm] max: is that alright?
[12:52pm] smorgan: wfm
[12:52pm] max: alright
[12:52pm] max:    
[12:52pm] max: froodian wants to make sure that hack is alright
[12:54pm] max: pinkerton: i think this is kind of for you
[12:59pm] max: well
[12:59pm] max: let's just adjorn the meeting since most everyone is away now. 
[1:00pm] murph: hey max, if you don't mind I have one topic to discuss quickly..
[1:00pm] smorgan: pink should come back at some point
[1:00pm] murph: if anyone is still around  
[1:00pm] max: alright
[1:01pm] murph: what are everyone's thoughts about building in support for OpenSearch..
[1:01pm] murph: coming from bug 201723 comment 19
[1:01pm] smorgan: Don't we have a bug for it?
[1:02pm] murph: it's a way for sites to advertise a search ability kinda the same way rss feeds are discovered..
[1:02pm] murph: hmm..
[1:02pm] max: i don't think we do
[1:02pm] max: but it's definitely a good idea
[1:02pm] smorgan:        bug 358798    
[1:02pm] murph: i kinda have a basic implementation of it working, I just need to parse the xml data better..
[1:03pm] smorgan: It's already filed and confirmed
[1:03pm] murph: smorgan: k.  sorry I didn't notice that.. i assumed there was nothing about it since there were no replies to ben's suggestion in the other bug
[1:04pm] max: oh, wow, awesome
[1:04pm] murph: alright then..I'll just work on a complete patch, disregard my request to talk it over  
[1:04pm] max: so yeah, go for it. 
[1:05pm] pinkerton: sorry on phone
[1:05pm] murph: i also have a couple fixes almost ready for dropping URLs onto toolbar buttons (such as Home and New Tab)
[1:06pm] murph: so, that's an update on what I've been up to.. just thought I'd mention  
[1:07pm] max: awesome
[1:08pm] max: well, let's adjorn and see everyone back next week
[1:08pm] pinkerton: ok
[1:08pm] pinkerton: i commented on that bug
[1:09pm] max: ah, thanks