Status Meetings:2007-05-02:Log

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[03:45am] You changed the topic to "".
[12:01pm] froodian: where'd i go?
[12:01pm] froodian:
[12:01pm] froodian: have people been invited?
[12:01pm] peeja: don't think so
[12:01pm] pinkerton joined the chat room.
[12:01pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:01pm] pinkerton: hey
[12:01pm] mento joined the chat room.
[12:01pm] mento was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:02pm] froodian: hi pink
[12:02pm] ardissone|food: no, i've been foraging
[12:02pm] froodian: nice to see you in the channel 
[12:02pm] froodian: brb
[12:02pm] pinkerton:
[12:02pm] pinkerton: i'm in the middle of lunch and tasking for my day job
[12:02pm] pinkerton: so i might not be immediately responsive
[12:03pm] ardissone|food: k
[12:03pm] ardissone|food: ss has another meeting right now, too
[12:04pm] ardissone|food: and smorgan must be in traffic 
[12:04pm] froodian left the chat room.
[12:04pm] pinkerton: i bloggled about 1.5 like ss asked me to
[12:04pm] ardissone|food: i saw; ty
[12:04pm] froodian joined the chat room.
[12:04pm] froodian was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:04pm] froodian: i swear, i'm not closing the tab. 
[12:04pm] pinkerton: and i've been trying to stay a bit more on top of my sr queue but i haven't checked in a few days
[12:04pm] peeja: giggles at the word "bloggle"
[12:04pm] pinkerton: so ping me if i'm behind
[12:05pm] ardissone|food: nothing impt right now; you cleared the 1.5 stuff
[12:05pm] froodian left the chat room.
[12:05pm] ardissone|food:
[12:05pm] ardissone|food:
[12:05pm] froodian joined the chat room.
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[12:05pm] ardissone|food: froodian:  have you tried quitting c-crap?
[12:05pm] peeja: froodian: you ok?
[12:05pm] froodian: takes a deep breath
[12:05pm] froodian: i'll try that
[12:05pm] froodian left the chat room. (Quit: Probably installing an update)
[12:06pm] froodian joined the chat room.
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[12:06pm] ardissone|food: crosses fingers
[12:07pm] froodian: i think that as long as i don't click in the main view it'll be ok
[12:07pm] froodian: rolls eyes
[12:07pm] ardissone|food:
[12:07pm] smorgan joined the chat room.
[12:07pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you.
[12:08pm] froodian: anyway, let's begin
[12:08pm] froodian: everybody browse to please
[12:08pm] froodian: we're zarro boogs for 1.5
[12:08pm] froodian: and the RC is RCed
[12:08pm] froodian: (see #camino for a link)
[12:08pm] froodian: so yay!
[12:09pm] pinkerton: yay!!!!!!!!!
[12:09pm] pinkerton: you guys all rock
[12:09pm] jeff: yippie!
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: pink has blogged the 1.1->1.5
[12:09pm] kreeger joined the chat room.
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[12:09pm] kreeger: word
[12:10pm] mento: the candy tastes good
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: the word is yay 
[12:10pm] froodian: pinkerton: btw, minor typo... 
[12:10pm] froodian: should be "users' hands"
[12:10pm] pinkerton: ah yes sorry
[12:10pm] pinkerton: i'll fix
[12:10pm] froodian:
[12:11pm] pinkerton: waits for mz
[12:11pm] froodian: ok, so for the actual release, we're waiting on Gecko + a little sanity testing, and the new website
[12:11pm] froodian: oh l10n
[12:11pm] froodian: too
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: that's the biggie
[12:11pm] froodian: yeah
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: nice chart on the wiki
[12:11pm] froodian: pretty colors
[12:11pm] froodian:
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: all sam 
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: the good news on the l10n front
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: is that jj has confirmed the bug has been fixed at Appple
[12:12pm] froodian: ( is the chart being mentioned, for those who don't watch every change made)
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: he doesn't know if he can distribute that build, tho
[12:13pm] pinkerton: that's a lot of white
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: yeah
[12:13pm] pinkerton: are we holding for simultaneous relase?
[12:14pm] pinkerton: seems like we could be waiting a while
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: i guess that was the plan, but we might have to re-evaluate
[12:14pm] ss: A lot of localizers just haven't reported back.
[12:14pm] ss: So it might not be that the work isn't done
[12:14pm] ss: Just that they're being quiet about it.
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: yeah, marcello just asked yesterday
[12:15pm] ss: Can someone who has connections at Apple see if they can push the good build out?
[12:15pm] pinkerton: hmm
[12:15pm] ss: looks at smorgan and pinkerton.
[12:15pm] mento: smorgan was my connection at apple
[12:15pm] smorgan: Yeah, I'll get right on the phone with Steve
[12:16pm] mento: thanks, we owe you one
[12:16pm] ardissone|food: ( )
[12:16pm] pinkerton: can't talk, under hyatt's desk
[12:16pm] ss: There's a certain contributor who now works at Apple.
[12:16pm] ss: Haha
[12:16pm] mento: pinkerton: pants?
[12:17pm] ss: In any case, we're going to push forward
[12:17pm] ss: And if we have to leave l10n behind, it'd suck, but we'd have to do it.
[12:17pm] ss: We can't delay 1.5 much longer.
[12:17pm] pinkerton: i say we should have a cutoff date so we can move forward if we haven't heard
[12:17pm] pinkerton: agreed
[12:17pm] pinkerton: 1week?
[12:17pm] ardissone|food: short term, some light promotion to get testing
[12:17pm] smorgan: We did a loc freeze; we tried our best
[12:17pm] ss: Let's say our cut off date is one week after Gecko's "for sure" freeze.
[12:17pm] ss: They already froze once
[12:17pm] pinkerton: slush
[12:17pm] ss: We're just waiting to see if it passes all their tests
[12:18pm] ss: Eh, it's not too bad.
[12:18pm] ss: It's two weeks at most.
[12:18pm] ss: Today, I'm going to update beta.cb.o and remove the "Try out 1.1b!" from cb.o
[12:19pm] ss: Moving on to 1.0.5...
[12:19pm] ss: We just need some patches / reviews / relnotes
[12:19pm] ss: Ideally it'd be a simultaneous release
[12:19pm] ss: But we'll see if we can pull that off
[12:20pm] ss: It not, it should be a couple weeks after 1.5 at most.
[12:20pm] pinkerton: k
[12:20pm] ss: It'll be our last release of 1.0.x
[12:20pm] ss: Now, looking forward.
[12:20pm] mento: last release of 1.0.x?
[12:20pm] ss: Yeah
[12:21pm] ss: Firefox is done on that branch, so it won't be getting browser-related security updates
[12:21pm] mento: based on the fact that there will be no more 1.8.0.x geckos?
[12:21pm] ss: There will be
[12:21pm] ss: But they'll be Tb-only, aiui
[12:21pm] ss: They've promised 6 months of stability releases after Tb 2, which was just released.
[12:21pm] mento: i can totally see us revisiting that, because i can totally see mozilla revisiting that, but we'll hit it when we need to.
[12:21pm] ss: (I think it was 6 months...)
[12:21pm] ss: Yeah, we'll see. I'm pretty sure Mozilla is done with it...
[12:22pm] mento: k.  moving on.
[12:22pm] ss: Yeah
[12:22pm] ss: 1.6 stuff
[12:22pm] ss: We need to branch our mozilla/camino stuff only
[12:22pm] ss: mento: I believe you said that was doiable... 
[12:22pm] pinkerton: ss: waht's beinvenue's email addr? or .org?
[12:22pm] mento: yeah.  requires tickling
[12:22pm] mento: no trailing e, first of all
[12:22pm] ss: That way we can do feature work and release 1.5.x releases as well
[12:22pm] ss:
[12:23pm] pinkerton: thx
[12:23pm] ss: np
[12:23pm] ss: We need to decide what basic things we want for 1.6
[12:23pm] ss: And we need to decide a timetable.
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: and figure out who's available to work
[12:23pm] ss: This is a release we can't stray on too much because we need to get back to the trunk asap.
[12:23pm] smorgan: No, we need to decide one of those two things, ss
[12:24pm] froodian: which one, and why do you say that?
[12:24pm] ss: Sure
[12:24pm] smorgan: Either, but we can't decide both what we are doing and when it's going to be done
[12:24pm] ss: If we decide a timetable, we can cut things that don't fit
[12:24pm] ss: If we decide features, we can extend our timetable.
[12:24pm] ss: Fair enough
[12:25pm] froodian: ah
[12:25pm] smorgan: (I mean, it would be nice if we could, but realistically cannot)
[12:25pm] mento: "we need to get back to the trunk asap" - 1.6 will not share with the trunk in camino/ as 1.1/1.5 did up until now?
[12:25pm] ss: mento: It will, of course.
[12:25pm] pinkerton: do we want to think about desmond's tab stuff for 1.6?
[12:25pm] ss: But we need to be fully on the trunk sooner rather than later.
[12:25pm] mento: then what does "we need to get back to the trunk" mean?
[12:25pm] ardissone|food: gecko tunrk
[12:25pm] pinkerton: it's been on the trunk for so long
[12:25pm] ss: Our nightly testers need to be on trunk.
[12:25pm] ss: Yeah, tab stuff is P1 for 1.6
[12:25pm] mento: ok
[12:26pm] pinkerton: ok
[12:26pm] froodian: software update should be too
[12:26pm] ss: There are far too many changes on trunk that could break us in so many ways. 
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: tabs need a lot of work, tho
[12:26pm] ss: I concur.
[12:26pm] froodian: the longer we put that off, the more we screw over users
[12:26pm] smorgan: agreed w/froodian
[12:26pm] ss: Those are the two major features that I think we need.
[12:26pm] smorgan: Is there documentation on how to integrate Moz's update system?
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: i'm fine with tabs+swupd+some little stuff
[12:27pm] ss: smorgan: A bit, but not too much. I can guide a little on that and can have a few people here talk to whomever's doing the impl.
[12:27pm] ss: We can talk in channel after this.
[12:27pm] ss: I have to run to another meeting though.
[12:27pm] ardissone|food: tabs = just desmond's stuff, or dragging too?
[12:28pm] ss: Dragging too, I think.
[12:28pm] smorgan: BTW, when we triage the hell out of 1.6 (currently 1/3 of all open Camino bugs), I move we make most of those untargeted, instead of continuing the "always push everything to the next release" trend.
[12:28pm] ardissone|food: k
[12:28pm] ardissone|food: yes, and
[12:28pm] froodian: smorgan: indeed
[12:28pm] ardissone|food: pls fix the QA/assignee
[12:28pm] froodian: smorgan: btw, please fix QA when you touch bugs...
[12:28pm] froodian: yeah
[12:28pm] froodian: that
[12:29pm] smorgan: wonders what the QA thing is for
[12:29pm] ardissone|food: watching
[12:29pm] froodian: so people can get bugmail
[12:29pm] smorgan: ah
[12:29pm] froodian: ok, i'll pick up the "moving ahead" reigns in ss's absence
[12:29pm] ardissone|food: you can watch all cm bugs by watching all the component QAs
[12:29pm] froodian: tboxen will no longer be at moco
[12:29pm] froodian: as soon as ss has internet in his apartment
[12:30pm] peeja: godspeed, internet
[12:30pm] ss: Which is soon. I got the modem today.
[12:30pm] froodian: ok, anybody have anything else before we move on to specific bug?
[12:30pm] froodian: ss: 
[12:30pm] smorgan: On the tb subject...
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: mento: what's the status on xserve01
[12:30pm] smorgan: What's the status of having a project file that we can actually edit?
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: upgrading all 4 to 10.4
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: er, 3 of the 4
[12:31pm] smorgan: Can we do that now that they aren't subject to the whim of MoCo IT, or whatever the holdup has been for the last year?
[12:32pm] ardissone|food: once they're at sam's, yes
[12:32pm] ardissone|food: that is the plan aiui
[12:32pm] ss: Yes
[12:32pm] ss: mento can talk more on it
[12:32pm] ss: But the plan is to upgrade them.
[12:32pm] ss: And probably kill of pawn.
[12:32pm] froodian: does a little dance (then makes a little love, gets down tonight, and invites thebot)
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[12:33pm] pinkerton: i love my dead, gay pawn
[12:33pm] murph-away is now known as murph.
[12:33pm] ardissone|food: a fresh install should really help him
[12:33pm] ardissone|food:  /her/it
[12:34pm] froodian: ok, Bug 175651
[12:34pm] thebot: froodian: Bug maj, --, Camino1.6,, NEW, CJK (at least Chinese and Japanese) font Preferences changes not applied to any CJK Web page
[12:34pm] murph: hey good timing; sorry I'm late guys  
[12:35pm] froodian: heh
[12:35pm] froodian: murph has brought in a patch, and we'd like to get it for 1.0.5 if possible
[12:35pm] froodian: so
[12:35pm] froodian: somebody needs to look at it
[12:36pm] ardissone|food: who is up for the challenge?
[12:36pm] froodian: anyway, if any potential reviewers wanted to set the flag ?them, it'd be a Good Thing
[12:37pm] thebot: Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 7.9.0 pawn Depend' has changed state from Test Failed to Burning.
[12:38pm] froodian: indeed
[12:38pm] smorgan: lol
[12:38pm] froodian: ok, barring any volunteers atm...
[12:38pm] ardissone|food: yay, firefighting was invoked there 
[12:39pm] froodian: Bug 376930 could probably use some discussion.  the problem is, it seems people tend to have their browser window near the top of the screen, and tend to use their rightmost tab most.
[12:39pm] thebot: froodian: Bug nor, --, ---,, UNCO, Overflow menu covers whole upper right part of my screen
[12:39pm] froodian: which puts that menu almost entirely offscreen most of the time
[12:39pm] froodian: it's not insurmountable or undealablewith,
[12:39pm] froodian: but it seems less than ideal
[12:39pm] ardissone|food: for anyone who uses more than about 12 tabs
[12:40pm] ardissone|food: (or n+4, where n is tabs in your usual width)
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[12:40pm] smorgan: reverting brings back the "it's hard to go right" probem though
[12:40pm] froodian: right
[12:42pm] froodian: reverse order sucks btw
[12:42pm] froodian: i tried it in a build, and it's just as confusing as you'd imagine
[12:42pm] ardissone|food: yeah, that seems worse than now
[12:42pm] ardissone|food: heh
[12:42pm] smorgan: I for one don't use trunk, so it's hard to know which is less problematic, or have new inspiration
[12:43pm] smorgan: So probably we need to get all this stuff landed on branch soon, and go from there
[12:43pm] froodian: ok.  well, maybe the discussion can wait until we land on branch then
[12:43pm] smorgan: I really only open trunk to play with widgets
[12:43pm] ardissone|food: we have 3-4 other bugs blocking branch landing?
[12:43pm] froodian: ok, that about wraps it up then, unless anybody has anything else... ?
[12:43pm] froodian: i don't think anything else actually blocks branch landing
[12:43pm] froodian: imo
[12:44pm] ardissone|food: ok
[12:44pm] froodian: the tab menu was the only thing that made scrolling totally unusable
[12:44pm] froodian: (or absence of it)
[12:44pm] smorgan: Which reminds me for anyone who missed josh's comment: no cocoa widget bugs filed from Camino unless you've ripped out all our CSS
[12:44pm] smorgan: yeah
[12:44pm] ardissone|food: we have very little still there
[12:44pm] ardissone|food: nothing for textareas 
[12:45pm] ardissone|food: waiting on sr to fix button...
[12:45pm] smorgan: Just in general, we don't behave the same in a bunch of ways
[12:46pm] ardissone|food: i think i'm out of bugs with that, but i'll pass the word to philippe
[12:46pm] ardissone|food: he's the other widgets bug filer
[12:46pm] froodian: ok, good meeting folks.  see you all around.
[12:46pm] smorgan: hopefully josh will get the last few livability things addressed and then all our CSS will go
[12:46pm] ardissone|food: the ☃ cometh!
[12:47pm] froodian: heh
[12:47pm] thebot was kicked from the chat room by froodian. (you are no longer useful)