Status Meetings:2007-05-09:Log

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Topic changed to "" by froodian|away.
[11:28am] froodian|away:                           
[11:52am] jeff joined the chat room.
[11:53am] jeff was promoted to operator by froodian|away.
[11:57am] cl joined the chat room.
[12:01pm] pinkerton joined the chat room.
[12:01pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:01pm] peeja joined the chat room.
[12:02pm] Wevah joined the chat room.
[12:02pm] cl was promoted to operator by froodian|away.
[12:02pm] peeja was promoted to operator by froodian|away.
[12:02pm] Wevah was promoted to operator by froodian|away.
[12:02pm] Wevah: warning: i'm not really awake
[12:02pm] mento joined the chat room.
[12:02pm] mento was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:02pm] ardissone|away: boy, i must have been really tired last ngight
[12:02pm] murph-away joined the chat room.
[12:02pm] murph-away was promoted to operator by froodian|away.
[12:02pm] cl: may only be here for half of this meeting
[12:03pm] cl: depending on how long it goes
[12:03pm] mento: everyone open in your camino 1.5rc
[12:03pm] ardissone|away: pretty full house
[12:04pm] mento:                           
[12:04pm] ardissone|away: just traffic-boy and kreeger 
[12:04pm] froodian|away: mento: you wanna do this? 
[12:04pm] froodian|away: 'cause ss doesn't seem to be around...
[12:04pm] froodian|away: and i'd be happy not to... 
[12:04pm] mento: froodian|away: i'm gonna need to leave in 15 minutes
[12:04pm] mento: but i can get us started
[12:04pm] You are now known as ardissone|food.
[12:05pm] mento: so we've got some candy already built, and i just scheduled a respin for rc2 tracking gecko
[12:05pm] ardissone|food: sorry about the relbrnach thing, btw; i completely misunderstood its purpose
[12:05pm] mento: ardissone|food: i don't blame you
[12:05pm] mento: more work for me this time around and the process may change if the build team gets over itself
[12:06pm] ardissone|food: sorry just the same
[12:06pm] mento: no biggie
[12:06pm] mento: the talkback product string has changed from Camino11 to Camino15, someone might want to let jay know
[12:06pm] pinkerton:!!??!
[12:06pm] pinkerton: ss: can you let jay know?
[12:06pm] ardissone|food: oh, so we have no TB?
[12:06pm] ardissone|food: hasn't even checked 
[12:06pm] mento: they won't show up in digested reports
[12:07pm] mento: but the reports should be flowing in and should be queryable
[12:07pm] ardissone|food: k
[12:07pm] ardissone|food: i'll query by buildid then
[12:07pm] mento: good.  anyone have any updates on the site updates?
[12:07pm] ardissone|food: some progress
[12:07pm] ardissone|food: i'm not sure beyond that
[12:07pm] mento: beta.cb.o?
[12:07pm] ardissone|food: ?
[12:08pm] mento: is that where they're being staged?
[12:08pm] ardissone|food: no
[12:08pm] ardissone|food: sam's computer
[12:08pm] mento: oh, that's nice
[12:08pm] mento: i'm sure sam will let us know when we have something pretty to look at
[12:08pm] ardissone|food:  /support/ is on my HD, at least the text
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: the part that's done
[12:09pm] mento: extols the virtues of revision control
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: heh
[12:09pm] mento: what can i do to help 1.0.5 along?
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: he won't give me cvs access 
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: what do we need to do re:minibranching?
[12:10pm] mento: oh, you want to break the order of the agenda?
[12:10pm] smorgan joined the chat room.
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: we have stuff that can land now
[12:10pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by froodian|away.
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: no, 1.0.5 minibranching
[12:10pm] mento: today or tomorrow, i'll fork a minibranch for 1_6 and make changes
[12:10pm] mento: oh, ok, NOT skipping the agenda, then
[12:10pm] mento: where's the list of current landables?
[12:10pm] mento: anything aside from the usual 1.8.0 stuff?
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: yes
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: we have a few noms
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: Releases:1.0.5:Links
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: 4 are "ready" to land
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: 2 need patches or reivew
[12:12pm] ardissone|food:
[12:12pm] mento: 379438 was a lot of stuff and is scary.  smorgan, how's that going?
[12:12pm] smorgan: I'll take a look tonight; I haven't dug into it again recently
[12:12pm] mento: and it would be nice to get smfr's take on 175651 if we can
[12:12pm] smorgan: I have an untested patch
[12:13pm] mento: ok, so should we set a target date for our 1.0.5 rc?
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: next wed?
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: i dunno if that's reasonable
[12:14pm] mento: more reasonable than monday, which is what i was going to suggest
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: it depends on smorgan (since he's 1 patch + 1 review) + branching + chickens, I guess
[12:15pm] ardissone|food: or not branching
[12:15pm] ardissone|food: however we have to do it to get the code on 1.8.0 and in our release
[12:15pm] mento: right, let's just work on 1_8_0 in mozilla/camino and i'll take care of the ugly branch and tag madness
[12:16pm] ardissone|food: sounds like a plan
[12:16pm] mento: do we have a relnote wiki for 1.0.5 yet?
[12:16pm] ardissone|food: partially
[12:16pm] ardissone|food:
[12:16pm] ardissone|food: the picasa stuff that landed is already on there
[12:17pm] ardissone|food: i'll add the rest as it lands, reusing the 1.1b+ notes if possible
[12:18pm] mento: ok, great.
[12:18pm] mento: 1.0.5 will most likely lag 1.5, even if only for l10n
[12:18pm] mento: does that sound fair?
[12:19pm] ardissone|food: mhm
[12:19pm] mento: great.  anyone else have anything for 1.0.5?
[12:19pm] mento: going once, going twice
[12:20pm] pinkerton: nope
[12:20pm] mento: 'k.  the 1.5.x/1.6 split will happen today or tomorrow.  we'll fork a branch in mozilla/camino (and for 1.6 work, CAMINO_1_6_BRANCH
[12:20pm] ardissone|food: why not fork 1.5.x off?
[12:21pm] ardissone|food: just curious, since that seemed to be what we were leaning towards
[12:21pm] mento: yeah, that's what i meant
[12:21pm] mento: the branch will be for 1.5.x work
[12:21pm] mento: thanks
[12:21pm] ardissone|food:
[12:22pm] pinkerton: heh
[12:22pm] mento: since that's what we were leaning towards 
[12:22pm] mento: 1.5.x will go into security/stability mode.  will 1.6 continue to track the trunk in mozilla/camino?
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: 18branch?
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: 1.8[.1] branch
[12:23pm] froodian|away: 1.8branch
[12:23pm] mento: or are we going to start taking more heinous 2.0-targeted changes on the trunk and be a little more conservative for 1.6, so we can maybe get 1.6 out in less than a year?
[12:23pm] mento: 1.6 = 1.8[.1] branch
[12:23pm] froodian|away: yeah
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: oh, i misunderstood your question
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: well
[12:23pm] pinkerton: 1.6 should be more conservative, not tracking trunk
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: we still fix trunk-only things on trunk
[12:23pm] smorgan: I suspect we won't be doing much heinous trunk work concurrently with 1.6 development
[12:23pm] mento: i agree.  do we have specific features in mind that are 2.0-only at this point?
[12:24pm] froodian|away: not that'll get written any time in the near future
[12:24pm] ardissone|food: i'm sure someone does, but that's what jun 18 or whatever is for 
[12:24pm] mento: ok, so 1.6 is theoretically more conservative
[12:24pm] ardissone|food: tab scrolling and dragging, minor polish, ...?
[12:25pm] smorgan: updating
[12:25pm] smorgan: hopefully
[12:25pm] ardissone|food: right, update
[12:25pm] mento: and (summer of code segue!) things like tabosé are 2.0-targeted
[12:25pm] ardissone|food: tabs and update are the 2 biggies i've been hearing
[12:26pm] mento: will we be reusing mozilla's updater?
[12:26pm] cl: that's the plan
[12:26pm] cl: or, that *was* the plan last time we talked about it
[12:26pm] mento: anyone want to own that yet?
[12:26pm] smorgan: I probably will
[12:26pm] mento: nice
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: smorgan and froodian are fighting over it 
[12:26pm] cl: wasn't kreeger talking about it at some point?
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: kreeger is SoC for tb
[12:26pm] mento: cl: think that was a while ago
[12:26pm] froodian|away: smorgan can have it if he wants 
[12:27pm] froodian|away: but yes, i'd look at it if he wasn't
[12:27pm] smorgan: should we be doing breakpad for 1.6 or 2.0?
[12:27pm] mento: hopefully 1.6
[12:27pm] cl: breakpad?
[12:27pm] mento: let's add it to the list
[12:27pm] mento: and give it to me
[12:27pm] ardissone|food: k
[12:27pm] smorgan: mento: sweet
[12:27pm] ardissone|food: we need a real list 
[12:27pm] cl: What's breakpad?
[12:27pm] smorgan: mento: do you want me to write a reporter UI?
[12:27pm] pinkerton: chuckles
[12:27pm] froodian|away: cl: talkback replacement.  it's where mento was for the past 6 months 
[12:28pm] mento: we might need to live on mofo test infrastructure
[12:28pm] cl: I thought that was called airbag. 
[12:28pm] mento: yo.
[12:28pm] pinkerton: it was
[12:28pm] ardissone|food: a long, long time agoooo...
[12:28pm] cl: lovely.
[12:28pm] mento: crashpad
[12:28pm] pinkerton: resists using other names
[12:28pm] mento: smorgan: can ya?  something simple and sweet?
[12:29pm] cl: points out that "brakes" and "breaks" are two different things, and then ducks and covers
[12:29pm] smorgan: mento: I'm thinking we don't want to use the ghetto "it's like a Mac app, but not really" version that Moz is using
[12:29pm] smorgan: Yeah, should be easy
[12:29pm] ardissone|food: and adhering to the UI guidelines 
[12:29pm] smorgan: cl: It's humor
[12:29pm] smorgan: (in quotes)
[12:29pm] ardissone|food: humour, even
[12:29pm] mento: smorgan: you must be referring to things like not using .strings files for l10n 
[12:29pm] smorgan: What ever gave you that idea 
[12:29pm] mento: heh
[12:30pm] mento: would be nice to develop the reporter into the reference implementation for real mac projects
[12:30pm] mento: ok, summer of code
[12:30pm] ardissone|food:
[12:30pm] smorgan: (can someone file bugs for Camino breakpad, just so it's in the system?)
[12:30pm] peeja: mento: so much for your segue... 
[12:30pm] mento: has our summeree been to #camino yet?
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: i will
[12:30pm] mento: peeja: i'm trying here
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: was thinking that this am
[12:31pm] pinkerton: he sent me email a week or so ago, but i haven't replied yet
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: um
[12:31pm] jeff: Im here
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: ^^^
[12:31pm] froodian|away: our summeree is jeff 
[12:31pm] pinkerton: ta-da
[12:31pm] mento: there you go
[12:31pm] cl: hi jeff
[12:31pm] mento: hi jeff, welcome
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: he's been in #camino since the announcement
[12:31pm] jeff: waves
[12:31pm] pinkerton: guesses he should probably reply now
[12:31pm] froodian|away: swears he did this two weeks ago 
[12:31pm] cl:
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: mhm
[12:31pm] cl: froodian|away: you did.
[12:31pm] mento: pinkerton: caught red-handed
[12:31pm] cl: I was here, and I remember 
[12:31pm] mento: yeah, i was eating lunch two weeks ago
[12:32pm] cl: you haven't eaten lunch in two weeks?
[12:32pm] froodian|away: anyway, sorry to derail that train...
[12:32pm] mento: speaking of that, i need to pass the torch to someone else - i'm really hungry, having not eaten in two weeks
[12:32pm] froodian|away: k
[12:32pm] froodian|away: we need to meet at some point
[12:32pm] mento: froodian|away: all yours, buddy
[12:32pm] froodian|away: to scope out the project
[12:32pm] froodian|away: ty mento 
[12:32pm] ardissone|food: enjoy food!
[12:32pm] mento:  /nick mento`food
[12:32pm] froodian|away: like last year's, but without random devs from other projects
[12:33pm] froodian|away: (just to keep it from being too chaotic)
[12:33pm] pinkerton: when does it officially start? end of may?
[12:33pm] froodian|away: may 28
[12:33pm] pinkerton: that's what i thought
[12:33pm] pinkerton: so we've got some time
[12:33pm] froodian|away: yeah
[12:33pm] pinkerton: jeff: you going to wwdc?
[12:33pm] jeff: yes
[12:34pm] pinkerton: cool, will you be around the following weekend for our camino shin-dig?
[12:34pm] pinkerton: june 16/17
[12:34pm] ardissone|food: (scoping for 1.6: )
[12:34pm] jeff: yea I plan on it
[12:35pm] pinkerton: schweet
[12:35pm] froodian|away: anyway, i suppose we can set an exact date next week, but let's say "around may 28" ?
[12:35pm] cl: anyone have any small projects they think I should work on this afternoon killing 8 hours at the airport?
[12:36pm] ardissone|food: undo close tab 
[12:36pm] ardissone|food: opt-click to download  
[12:36pm] cl: I said "small" 
[12:36pm] jeff: I'm free pretty much all next week
[12:37pm] jeff: so I have no preference when the meeting is
[12:38pm] froodian|away: should this meeting be before it starts, or shortly after?
[12:38pm] froodian|away: also, who's the official mentor on this again?  smorgan, pink?
[12:38pm] jeff: smorgan
[12:38pm] smorgan: is
[12:38pm] froodian|away: cool
[12:38pm] pinkerton: what they said
[12:39pm] smorgan: Assuming jeff doesn't mind digging in early, I'd much rather scope it before the official start
[12:39pm] jeff: smorgan: that sounds good
[12:39pm] ardissone|food: you have page in the wiki for the project home
[12:40pm] ardissone|food:
[12:40pm] jeff: ok cool
[12:40pm] ardissone|food: see for how we used the page last year
[12:41pm] pinkerton: we need to get the dates on there
[12:41pm] froodian|away: ok, i'm gonna go ahead and propose Tues the 22 at 12 EST (the normal time we do this meeting)
[12:41pm] froodian|away: does that work for people?
[12:41pm] pinkerton: that was the part i had the hardest time with last year.
[12:41pm] froodian|away: roger.  dates.
[12:41pm] pinkerton: the soc dates and deadlines aren't easy to find
[12:42pm] jeff: Tue 22 works for me
[12:42pm] ardissone|food: i found them lazt nigth
[12:42pm] peeja:
[12:42pm] pinkerton: yah, that works for me
[12:42pm] froodian|away: hands peeja the blue-and-white star of speediness
[12:42pm] peeja: beams
[12:42pm] ardissone|food: indeed, faster than my cmd-y
[12:45pm] ardissone|food: so, we missed mento to ask about boxen, and ss is not here, either
[12:45pm] peeja: do we need to talk about my project at all?
[12:45pm] pinkerton: can someone email ss and remind him to tell jay about the talkback change?
[12:45pm] ardissone|food: pinkerton: i will
[12:46pm] pinkerton: peeja: i wasn't sure what the full details there were. i saw some email from sam, but he'd be the one to ask
[12:46pm] froodian|away: can we at least get a + from smorgan on meeting time?
[12:46pm] froodian|away: so we can set it tentatively?
[12:46pm] smorgan: +
[12:46pm] froodian|away: k
[12:46pm] froodian|away: ty
[12:46pm] froodian|away: peeja: let's let it be next week 
[12:46pm] froodian|away: so ss can be here
[12:47pm] peeja: sound good
[12:47pm] froodian|away: ok, so moving past boxen for now
[12:47pm] froodian|away: we already talked about the specific bug a bit
[12:47pm] froodian|away: so does anybody have anything else?
[12:48pm] pinkerton: i've been using the 1.5rc and it rocks
[12:48pm] peeja: what's bookmark loss?
[12:48pm] cl: the usual
[12:48pm] ardissone|food: yeah, anyone hearing anything about 1.5 we should know about?
[12:49pm] cl: shudders at the idea of bookmark loss being "the usual"
[12:49pm] smorgan: That should go off the agenda until we have feedback from something newer than 1.1b
[12:49pm] ardissone|food: k
[12:49pm] cl: table it until 1.5 ships?
[12:49pm] cl: since that's probably the first chance we'll have to get some real feedback on it
[12:49pm] froodian|away: peeja: bug 337750
[12:49pm] cl: I don't think many of the people e-mailing have anything newer than 1.0.x or 1.1b
[12:50pm] smorgan: It's even theoretically possible that the double-pseudo-safe save was actually causing it to happen, although I'm not holding my breath on that
[12:50pm] froodian|away: hasn't heard anything positive or negative about 1.5rc
[12:50pm] cl: i'm gonna have to run very soon
[12:50pm] smorgan: At what point are we doing a real rc?
[12:50pm] smorgan: and announcing it?
[12:51pm] pinkerton: a bunch of the google sites work much better, i'm really happy with it
[12:51pm] cl: should someone e-mail smfr specifically and have him take a look at the CJK bug?
[12:51pm] ardissone|food: it needs r+ first
[12:51pm] froodian|away: pinkerton: yeah, but this one google app breaks, it's so annoying... 
[12:51pm] cl: haha
[12:51pm] froodian|away: (just teasing 
[12:51pm] pinkerton: yeah yeah 
[12:51pm] ardissone|food: hooray for strict version checking, thouugh 
[12:51pm] cl: is there any sort of ETA on that maintenance release that can be publicly announced?
[12:52pm] smorgan: I hear that app is nothing but ad-ware anyway (according to someone on the forum who apparently never used it)
[12:52pm] cl: does not use GD anyway
[12:52pm] cl: haha
[12:53pm] cl: yeah, good point
[12:53pm] smorgan: notes that this meeting is logged and posted
[12:53pm] cl: notes that no one from the forums really reads the meeting logs anyway 
[12:53pm] pinkerton: cl: it'll probably be in the next release (barring something major intervening) but i can't discuss an eta
[12:53pm] cl: especially since they're damn near impossible to find.
[12:53pm] froodian|away: people read them
[12:53pm] ardissone|food: um, they're linked from the main page of the wiki 
[12:53pm] froodian|away: somebody knew we were going to be 1.5 before we told anybody
[12:54pm] smorgan: And indexed by search engines, right?
[12:54pm] froodian|away: yes
[12:54pm] froodian|away: anyway, i think we've appropriately digressed
[12:54pm] ardissone|food: indeed
[12:55pm] froodian|away: have a good week all, see you 'round
[12:55pm] cl: indeed
[12:55pm] froodian|away was kicked from the chat room by froodian|away. (froodian|away)
[12:55pm] ardissone|food: please continue to bang on 1.5 and/or fix 1.0.5 bugs as appropriate