Status Meetings:2007-10-24:Log

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[01:56am] You changed the topic to "".
[11:51am] jeff joined the chat room.
[11:56am] jeff was promoted to operator by cl.
[11:56am] murph joined the chat room.
[11:56am] cl: imitates Chuck Norris by waiting in anticipation
[11:56am] murph was promoted to operator by cl.
[11:58am] cl: (for good measure)
[11:59am] cl: pink's idle at the moment
[11:59am] cl: but maybe pinging him will wake him up 
[12:02pm] mento joined the chat room.
[12:02pm] mento was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:03pm] ardissone|away: 1 of 3
[12:03pm] mento: lemme see if i can find the other googlies
[12:03pm] ardissone|away: suspects 1 is in traffic
[12:03pm] cl: wonders how much traffic there really is for smorgan to fight with
[12:03pm] mento: nope, no googlies
[12:04pm] ardissone|away: will give the googlies a few mins
[12:04pm] ardissone|away: pink is in #camino
[12:04pm] cl: while we're waiting, I made some more progress on chasing down that Sparkle crash
[12:04pm] cl: (see scrollback for #camino, in part)
[12:05pm] You are now known as ardissone|food.
[12:05pm] mento: i have no scrollback in #camino, i just got there
[12:05pm] cl: it's still present in trunk Sparkle. I talked to Andy and he said he was in the process of doing a ground-up rewrite so he was rather disinclined to fix it
[12:05pm] mento: we should have a bot that logs #camino, and we should call it blackmailbot
[12:05pm] mento: that kind of blows.
[12:06pm] cl: it *could* be a simple fix
[12:06pm] cl: or it might require a ground-up rewrite of Sparkle 
[12:06pm] mento: what's the bug look/taste like?
[12:06pm] cl: there's a really short description in the agenda
[12:06pm] ardissone|food: [12:14am] cl: it's crashing in checkForUpdatesAndNotify: when you cancel an active download, then initiate two update checks rapidly in succession
[12:06pm] ardissone|food: [12:15am] cl: and the stack trace shows the crash in Sparkle code, which leads me to believe it isn't a problem in the app itself.
[12:06pm] cl: you can see my bug report here:
[12:06pm] mento: cl: thanks
[12:07pm] cl: I'm now certain the bug is in Sparkle.
[12:07pm] cl: and I have line numbers now, thanks to doing a debug build of Sparkle
[12:07pm] mento: cl: excellent
[12:07pm] peeja joined the chat room.
[12:07pm] peeja was promoted to operator by cl.
[12:08pm] ardissone|food: darn, cl faster on the trigger
[12:08pm] cl:
[12:08pm] mento: chanserv beat both of you in my case
[12:08pm] cl: about time I won the draw 
[12:08pm] ardissone|food: never competes with chanserv
[12:08pm] cl: wonders why everyone here isn't aop in this channel
[12:08pm] cl: it would save smokey and I lots of typing 
[12:08pm] ardissone|food: so that if the meeting gets roudy, i can shut you up 
[12:08pm] smorgan joined the chat room.
[12:09pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you.
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: ok
[12:09pm] cl: mento: here's a pastebin of the method that's crashing
[12:09pm] cl:
[12:09pm] mento: cl: thanks
[12:09pm] cl: it's crashing on line 10 or line 12 in that method, depending on how you trigger the crash
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: we'll proceed pinkless, i guess
[12:10pm] cl: I'll table the Sparkle discussion until we get to that point in the meeting, then.
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: everyone open your Camino to
[12:10pm] ardissone|food:
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: i'm going to start again with 1.5.x and cover it quickly
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: 1.5.2 was last Fri, 1.5.3 should be next Thurs
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: Gecko broke the web 
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: the good news for us is mento + mrbkap debugged the evil Citi bug
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: so we're taking that fix asap for 1.5.3
[12:12pm] mento: go mento!
[12:12pm] cl: both of them
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: and will fix it on branch/trunk in due course with an XPT audit
[12:13pm] cl: say we find more important XPT's we're missing. Would we potentially do a 1.5.4 for them?
[12:13pm] ss: We'd include them in 1.5.4
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: when we do a 1.5.4
[12:14pm] ss: We're doing a 1.5.3 because of Gecko
[12:14pm] ss: Gecko broke certain parts of the interweb in their latest update
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: ss!
[12:14pm] ss: We're doing a release in line with them to fix the same issues
[12:14pm] ss: Hey ardissone
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: guten morgen Kaliforniia
[12:14pm] mento: we're only rolling these xpts into 1.5.3 because we caught them in time, they're really low-risk and quick, and it will allow one of your project leads to do his online banking without the aid of firefox
[12:14pm] ss: Their goal is Thursday, we'll see if we make it.
[12:15pm] ss: Where "we" this time means "Mozilla"
[12:15pm] cl: so the only reason we'd do a 1.5.x release after 1.5.3 would be specifically for another Gecko release off the 1.8.1.x branch.
[12:15pm] ss: Yes
[12:15pm] ardissone|food: typically we do not have Camino show-stoppers
[12:15pm] ss: Or if there's a critical bug to fix.
[12:15pm] mento: ss: are we still expecting them to tag today?
[12:15pm] cl: even if we discovered more missing XPTs that break the web? 
[12:15pm] ss: mento: Yes, but there's a meeting right now to decide that.
[12:15pm] ss: cl: Depends on the websites, etc.
[12:16pm] mento: cl: honestly, i was going to wait for 1.6 for this since it's been broken for so lng
[12:16pm] ss: I don't like thinking in hypotheticals.
[12:16pm] ardissone|food: anyway
[12:16pm] ss: We'll review any bug for severity and make an informed decision.
[12:16pm] ss: Or uninformed
[12:16pm] ss: Moving on? 
[12:16pm] ardissone|food: Talkback is more-or-less as expected
[12:16pm] mento: ok, so, waiting for gecko to tag and we'll get a build, then release in sync with them
[12:17pm] ardissone|food: plugins suck
[12:17pm] ardissone|food: 1passwd+Camino users are a bit slow
[12:17pm] cl: obviously 
[12:17pm] ardissone|food: #  14 of 19 libobjc crashes are 1passwd; only 3 have email listed, but we'll mail them
[12:17pm] ss: To be more specific than just "plugins suck", Firefox is tracking a plugin issue in Gecko.
[12:18pm] ss: Flash sucks more than normal for them in
[12:18pm] ardissone|food: it seems to suck a bit less for us
[12:18pm] ss: So we may pick up a fix there.
[12:18pm] ss: Yeah, which is good to know in triaging it.
[12:18pm] mento: not according to the latest analysis in 400714?
[12:19pm] ss: We're all still arguing about it.
[12:19pm] ardissone|food: the libsystemB crash is related to mozplugin code, tho
[12:20pm] ardissone|food: and it's been rising
[12:20pm] ardissone|food: notes that arguement is why i wish auto crash reporters included the library versions 
[12:21pm] ss: Yeah
[12:21pm] mento: i know of one that does
[12:21pm] ss: Breakpad is better, I'm sure.
[12:21pm] ss:
[12:21pm] ardissone|food: no
[12:21pm] ardissone|food: not unless mento fixed my bug
[12:21pm] ardissone|food: i've gotten no bugmail about it 
[12:21pm] mento: breakpad provides for it
[12:21pm] mento: unfortunately, i didn't write the mac handler myself
[12:22pm] mento: if it's broken, we can fix it
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: i filed a bug report
[12:22pm] mento: k, i'll look into it
[12:22pm] ss: Moving right along...
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: anyway
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: 1.6
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: we're not code-ready for a1 today
[12:23pm] ss: But we're closer!
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: mento: no breakpad for a1, safe to say?
[12:23pm] mento: pretty safe
[12:23pm] mento: move it to a2
[12:23pm] smorgan: I'm juggling trees ATM; I'll likely land Sparkle today
[12:23pm] smorgan: sorry I've been slow on that
[12:23pm] ss: doesn't want to have an a2
[12:23pm] ss: But if we must...
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: i heard from batwood this AM
[12:24pm] mento: b1
[12:24pm] mento: a1.5
[12:24pm] ss: Heh
[12:24pm] peeja: aSnowman
[12:24pm] mento: heh
[12:24pm] ardissone|food: he's got the non-xpfe stuff half done, at a good break i guess, and thinks the 2nd half can be left for later
[12:24pm] ss: Excellent
[12:24pm] ardissone|food: jeff: any tabs news?
[12:25pm] jeff: midterms caught up to me this week, so I have not gotten around to posting a WIP
[12:25pm] jeff: but
[12:25pm] jeff: I will post one that does all the dragging and does not crash
[12:25pm] jeff: just no animations yet
[12:25pm] ardissone|food:
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: murph: OpenSearch?
[12:27pm] ardissone|food: er, and the editor got review last week, too
[12:28pm] ardissone|food: um, i bitrotted everyone's projects this week 
[12:28pm] mento: good job with that!
[12:28pm] ardissone|food: strings files are now utf-8
[12:28pm] ardissone|food: so you diff 'em now
[12:29pm] ardissone|food: if you need to add a new strings file
[12:29pm] smorgan: I can do you one better... I have a patch almost done that should bitrot just about every non-project patch 
[12:29pm] ardissone|food: i updated Development:Reviewing
[12:29pm] murph: OS is almost there (as I say every week).  I was a bit busier than I thought over the past week, so I'll try to find time to finish real soon.
[12:29pm] ardissone|food:
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: (but feel free to talk to me if you have any questions about adding new .strings(.in) files)
[12:30pm] mento: good stuff
[12:30pm] mento: leopard?
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: jeff suggested we talk about that next week
[12:30pm] ss: We run on Leopard
[12:30pm] ss: But we look pretty bad
[12:30pm] mento: when more folks have had a chance to bitch about it?
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: when NDA is gone and many have it in their hot little hands
[12:30pm] smorgan: I'm going to fix the status bar soon
[12:31pm] smorgan: I've done most of it
[12:31pm] jeff: smorgan: what about the bkmkbar?
[12:31pm] smorgan: Still not sure what to do there
[12:31pm] ss: I think we need a bookmark bar update, tab bar update, and some icon revisions.
[12:31pm] ss: Not major icon revisions this round
[12:31pm] smorgan: I played with your versions, but they clash with the tab bar IMO
[12:31pm] mento: we're just talking about visual ugly there, aren't we?
[12:31pm] ss: Just some enhancments.
[12:31pm] ss: Yes, just visual ugly
[12:31pm] mento: excellent
[12:32pm] ss: Also:
[12:32pm] ss: If anyone wants 10.5 and needs any help buying it or is okay with receiving next week instead of Friday, please see me.
[12:32pm] mento: ha
[12:32pm] cl: raises a hand
[12:32pm] ss: And I'll make sure you get it.
[12:32pm] cl:
[12:32pm] ss: PM me and we'll talk.
[12:32pm] ss: Moving along?
[12:33pm] ardissone|food: anyway, 10.5's for next week
[12:33pm] mento: keep'm comin'
[12:33pm] ss: We need to re-evaluate 10.5 more.
[12:33pm] ss: We'll look more next week.
[12:33pm] ardissone|food: puts on broken record
[12:33pm] ardissone|food: moves on to specific bugs
[12:34pm] ardissone|food: i've sorta outlined what i think are the known issues on swupdate
[12:34pm] cl: ...and here's where I tell smorgan about the fun little sparkle crasher I just found.
[12:35pm] ardissone|food: it's unclear how common in might be
[12:35pm] cl: Yeah, I should probably state that I don't think this is a huge deal because it seems fairly unlikely for the casual user to trigger
[12:35pm] mento: bet we can work around it by not letting sparkle check for updates when it's already checking for updates
[12:35pm] mento: or something along those lines
[12:35pm] ardissone|food: mento is poking the build-config issues, right?
[12:36pm] mento: yes
[12:36pm] mento: i'm going to make smorgan fix the objdir thing, then we'll be good to go on that
[12:36pm] mento: more info this afternoon
[12:36pm] ardissone|food: k
[12:36pm] smorgan: I'd love to, as soon as someone smarter than I tells me how 
[12:36pm] mento: smorgan: i'm mulling it over, i think we'll probably punt and do an assload of symbolic links
[12:37pm] smorgan: Or we start futzing with their tree in the form of a patch; I've been giving some thought to that
[12:38pm] mento: are there other reasons to do it?
[12:38pm] mento: last i heard, their code as-is was ok
[12:38pm] smorgan: Well, I hear there's a crasher
[12:39pm] mento: we can discuss more later, but if we do need to take local fixes to sparkle, i'd prefer
[12:39pm] smorgan: anyway, that's not important here
[12:39pm] mento: doing a sparkle import, tagging it, and then applying the patches over that
[12:39pm] mento: so we can easily compute a diff in cvs
[12:39pm] mento: anyway, more later
[12:39pm] ardissone|food: anything else on swupdate?
[12:40pm] ardissone|food: we also have bug 394821 here today
[12:40pm] ardissone|food: for those on wacky clients
[12:40pm] peeja: looks up
[12:41pm] ardissone|food: peejs's determined that that the AS behaves "correctly"
[12:41pm] smorgan: Any reason not to make it do what users would actually expect (i.e., if there is a folder with that name, put it inside it)?
[12:41pm] ardissone|food: correctly just happens to mean "eat your bookmarks" 
[12:41pm] peeja: and i'm not sure if there's a way to
[12:42pm] peeja: it's the way it interprets a positional specifier
[12:42pm] peeja: so even writing our own move command might not be enough
[12:43pm] ardissone|food: peeja and I already decided there were enough things that needed documenting (and as an API we provide to 3rdparties, should be documented)
[12:43pm] ardissone|food: that we'll do an AS guide regardless of what we decide on this bug
[12:44pm] ardissone|food: is a stub
[12:45pm] cl: mento: supposedly sparkle already prevents that
[12:45pm] cl: or at least, there's code in there that attempts to
[12:45pm] cl: sorry, I got called away from the couch for a second 
[12:45pm] mento: cl: ok
[12:46pm] ardissone|food: do we have any more thoughts on the AS bookmark-eating?
[12:47pm] peeja: actually, maybe it's possible
[12:47pm] peeja: but I wouldn't hold up a1 over it
[12:47pm] jeff left the chat room. (Quit: jeff)
[12:48pm] ardissone|food: yeah, i think the only thing we'll hold a1 on at this point is swupdate or some killer bug 
[12:48pm] ardissone|food: but if you'll investigate making that not eat bookmarks, that'd be good
[12:49pm] ardissone|food: moving on
[12:49pm] ardissone|food: has anyone given any more thought to our item of mini-apps for web feed handlers?
[12:49pm] ardissone|food: as in, 1.5.x, 1.6, ??
[12:49pm] peeja: needs to find food, will read log
[12:50pm] peeja left the chat room. (Quit: peeja)
[12:50pm] smorgan: If we have them, shipping in 1.6 sounds good to me
[12:50pm] ardissone|food: dougt and I have some working AS code
[12:50pm] smorgan: And they register as handlers?
[12:51pm] ardissone|food: yeah
[12:51pm] ardissone|food: the build-system for them will require a small bit of pain, maybe
[12:52pm] ardissone|food: which i can investigate if we want this for 1.6
[12:52pm] ardissone|food: anyone have opther bugs?
[12:53pm] ardissone|food:
[12:55pm] ardissone|food: (that doesn't actually go to a feed reader, but i do have code somewhere that does)
[12:56pm] ardissone|food: anything else today?
[12:58pm] ardissone|food: ok, everyone have a good week
[12:58pm] ardissone|food: keep your eyes on your 1.6 bugs and your request queues
[12:59pm] ardissone|food: we'll try for 1.6a1 freeze again next week
[1:00pm] smorgan left the chat room.