Status Meetings:2007-10-31:Log

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[11:56am] You are now known as ardissone|food.
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[12:01pm] pinkerton: very busy
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[12:01pm] ardissone|food: are we expecting mento?
[12:01pm] ardissone|food: yes
[12:01pm] mento joined the chat room.
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[12:02pm] ardissone|food: ok, everyone open your camino to
[12:02pm] ardissone|food: i'm going to hit 1.5.x really quickly first
[12:02pm] cl is now known as cl|GettingDressed.
[12:02pm] ardissone|food: we plan to release tomorrow or friday, after firefox
[12:03pm] ardissone|food: i filed bug 401835 on the libSyste.B plug-in related crashes in 1.5.2
[12:04pm] ardissone|food: they rank as 5,6, and 9 for 1.5.2
[12:04pm] ardissone|food: there's a sample stack in the bug, but that's really all we have to go on
[12:04pm] ss: is going to look up email addresses today.
[12:05pm] ardissone|food: yeah, for DesktopServicesPriv, which is 4 and 8 (with spotlight and some hex)
[12:06pm] ardissone|food: no bug on it yet, but working theory is maybe some open/save dialogue modifying haxie
[12:06pm] ardissone|food: "theory"
[12:06pm] ardissone|food: anything else on 1.5.x?
[12:07pm] mento: we don't have the localized build yet but marcello is close
[12:07pm] mento: although he's on leopard now and is having a little trouble - i may need to assist
[12:07pm] mento: we should be ok on that front
[12:07pm] ardissone|food: did you mail him back? my mail is slow today 
[12:07pm] mento: i did, but apparently not reply-al
[12:08pm] ardissone|food: k
[12:08pm] ardissone|food: 1.6/1.6a1
[12:09pm] ss: Yesss
[12:09pm] ardissone|food: we've made some progress on swupdate, but it's not yet ready
[12:09pm] ss: It's close.
[12:09pm] smorgan: ?
[12:09pm] ss: We need to decide on a URI.
[12:09pm] smorgan: We just need sr, right?
[12:09pm] ss: So I can get the SSL cert up and running.
[12:09pm] smorgan: oh, and that
[12:10pm] ardissone|food: yeah, that bug isn't in the list
[12:10pm] mento: what's wrong with
[12:10pm] mento: get the cert for that
[12:10pm] ss: I was asking if it should be a subdomain or not.
[12:10pm] ss: And if it matters to the cert (since I haven't worked with certs).
[12:10pm] ss: I believe that it does.
[12:10pm] mento: it does
[12:10pm] mento: why a subdomain?
[12:10pm] ss: I can get a *.cb.o cert, iirc.
[12:10pm] ss: Specifically for updates?
[12:11pm] ss: I don't know. 
[12:11pm] ardissone|food: we don't want trunk preventing us from loading it 
[12:11pm] mento: is this going to be hosted somewhere that's not the same as www?
[12:11pm] ss: Nope. Same spot.
[12:11pm] smorgan: ardissone|food: Sparkle doesn't use necko
[12:11pm] ss: So... pick a URI. cb.o/update?
[12:11pm] mento: then let's get the cert for, and we can make the url something like
[12:11pm] mento: done.
[12:11pm] ss: Sounds good.
[12:11pm] smorgan: I'll get you a prelm manifest soon
[12:11pm] ss: emails them now.
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: waiting on pink sr for the actual Camino code landing
[12:12pm] ardissone|food: iirc
[12:12pm] ss: You have to say it with his name. pinkerton's the hold up.
[12:13pm] ss: That way it pings him. 
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: lets ss annoy the project lead 
[12:13pm] ss: I'm happy to. 
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: i know 
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: we also have bugs about figuring out the EULA and l10n
[12:13pm] ardissone|food: and the appcast
[12:13pm] mento: kill the eula
[12:13pm] mento: have you seen leopard?
[12:14pm] ss: Kill the EULA.
[12:14pm] mento: the X is back (as i've been warning you for months)
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: only from afar
[12:14pm] mento: ss: hook our man up, wouldja?
[12:14pm] ss: He has it.
[12:14pm] ss: Just hasn't installed it yet. 
[12:14pm] ardissone|food: waiting on time + disk 
[12:14pm] smorgan: mento: you want to rip out the EULA stuff then?
[12:14pm] mento: i really really really do
[12:15pm] smorgan: I'll happily r+ 
[12:15pm] mento: hehe
[12:15pm] mento: i'd love to do that chicken
[12:15pm] ardissone|food: the whole world will applaud (well, maybe not mofo)
[12:15pm] smorgan: requests the use of "die die die!" in the checkin comment
[12:16pm] mento: nah, i think i'll make the comment "remove stephen colbert from credits.xhtml"
[12:16pm] ss: lol
[12:16pm] cl|GettingDressed: lol
[12:16pm] ardissone|food: lol
[12:16pm] cl|GettingDressed is now known as cl|packing.
[12:17pm] ardissone|food: anything else about swupdate?
[12:17pm] ss: No
[12:17pm] ss: But murph said he might have open search done in a couple of days
[12:17pm] smorgan: Once we have pinkerton's sr, we are good to go it sounds like
[12:18pm] ardissone|food: we do need to figure out the l10n part
[12:18pm] ss: I'd rather not release 1.6a1 at the same time as 1.5.3 either.
[12:18pm] pinkerton: sorry, was on the phone
[12:18pm] ss: So let's not release this week. 
[12:18pm] ardissone|food: yeah 
[12:18pm] murph: yep.  it's been a work in progress for long enough.  I'll try hard to get the editor review changes in today and OS by the weekend
[12:18pm] ardissone|food:                           
[12:19pm] ardissone|food: re a1 in particular, i think we mostly agree the xpt cleanup should block it
[12:19pm] ardissone|food: too
[12:19pm] mento: yes
[12:19pm] mento: agree
[12:20pm] mento: i'd hate to regress between 5.3 and 6a1
[12:20pm] pinkerton: i'll try to my sr list
[12:20pm] ardissone|food: that's mento, when he breaks away from fixing build on 10.5
[12:20pm] mento: i actually finished all of the leopard bugs
[12:20pm] ardissone|food:                           
[12:21pm] mento: except we should figure out ibpalette
[12:21pm] ardissone|food: mhm
[12:21pm] smorgan: I'll try to find docs; my recollection is fuzzy
[12:21pm] smorgan: I suspect the new way was Leopard tools only though
[12:21pm] mento: me too
[12:21pm] ardissone|food:                           
[12:21pm] mento: didn't bother looking for docs yet because they're spottily available
[12:22pm] ardissone|food:                           
[12:22pm] mento: in any case, the old ib stuff was poorly documented too
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: anwyay, a1
[12:22pm] mento: go apple
[12:22pm] ss: Next week?
[12:22pm] ss: Mid next week?
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: in theory all P1 UI bugs were to be fixed
[12:22pm] ardissone|food: Bug 361103 is still there; it can probably wait for beta
[12:22pm] mento: how 'bout: swupdate + xpts and then roll it
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: but it needs to be fixed
[12:23pm] ardissone|food: sounds good
[12:23pm] ss: Excellent.
[12:23pm] smorgan: I looked at that
[12:23pm] mento: there's a pair on the p1 list, what's up with that?
[12:23pm] smorgan: I'm not certain it's worth the effort
[12:24pm] ardissone|food: i find it very annoying 
[12:24pm] ardissone|food:  /confusing
[12:24pm] smorgan: I think we'd have to roll our own mouse tracking loop to fix it
[12:24pm] ardissone|food: ew
[12:24pm] mento: also, smorgan, we should talk about intentions of enabling swupdate in non-official builds - though we can do that in the bug or some other type of chat that's not the meeting
[12:24pm] smorgan: sure
[12:25pm] ss: (Have we talked about having a SWUpdate for nightly builds?)
[12:25pm] smorgan: You mean nightly to other nightly?
[12:25pm] ss: Yeah
[12:25pm] smorgan: Nope
[12:25pm] mento: we can talk about that too at the same time
[12:25pm] ss: Awesome.
[12:25pm] ardissone|food: jeff says a WIP for tab scrolling is on the way
[12:25pm] ss: Not for now, but something to consider.
[12:25pm] mento: how's this afternoon for y'all?
[12:26pm] ss: Perfect. I'll be in meetings and bored.
[12:26pm] mento: hot
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: batwood expected to have something after the weekend, but that didn't materialize
[12:26pm] ardissone|food: apparently
[12:27pm] ardissone|food: i think that covers the big non-a1 features left
[12:27pm] jeff: WIP for tab d&d will drop any second now
[12:27pm] ss:                           
[12:27pm] ardissone|food:                           
[12:28pm] jeff: the sad thing is that I made more progress in 2 days since I gave up on desmonds code ... then trying to work with it 
[12:29pm] ardissone|food: "yay"
[12:29pm] ardissone|food: i want to poke the trunk bugs quickly, and then we can jump to 10.5
[12:29pm] cl|packing: i'm out. gotta catch a flight to Detroit. I'll check the logs later
[12:29pm] cl|packing is now known as cl.
[12:29pm] ardissone|food: anyone who's not yet bored of debugging stupid gecko crap
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: we need to take a look at Bug 401383 and Bug 401328 
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[12:30pm] ardissone|food: maybe after we land the xpt cleanup 
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: but soon
[12:30pm] ss: Ugh, yeah.
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: since the fix for tab bleeing in fx 1) didn't fix us
[12:30pm] ardissone|food: 2) regressed us
[12:31pm] ardissone|food: so that's pretty nasty, and if widget changes are needed...
[12:32pm] smorgan: They are floating in my todo list already
[12:32pm] ss: ... We's need to get it in before the "platform beta".
[12:32pm] ardissone|food: moco is becoming less willing to land fixes for Camino in widget 
[12:32pm] smorgan: Or "final" as it's also known 
[12:32pm] ss: Haha, yeah
[12:33pm] ardissone|food: also on the "annoying flies in our ear" front
[12:33pm] ardissone|food: the xpfe cleanup continues
[12:34pm] ardissone|food: there's a patch in our xpfe bug that we need to make sure doesn't break us
[12:34pm] ardissone|food: and stefanh spent some time this weekend getting a "build finishes, crashes on startup" MOZ_XUL_APP patch
[12:34pm] mento: that's pretty hot.
[12:34pm] smorgan: I'll try it at some point, but fundamentally I just don't see a reason to care about this stuff for 1.9
[12:34pm] ardissone|food: it doesn't do much
[12:34pm] smorgan: So I haven't been prioritizing
[12:35pm] ardissone|food: their goal is to kill xpfe for 1.9
[12:35pm] mento: it'll make it slightly less likely for random trunk crap to break us
[12:35pm] ardissone|food: iiuc
[12:35pm] smorgan: I see no reason at all for them to do it know rather than 2 though
[12:35pm] smorgan: It will all magically die at that point anyway
[12:35pm] mento: because it's dead anyway, except to us
[12:35pm] ardissone|food: moz is on a "remove dead code now" kick
[12:35pm] smorgan: Right, so why punish just us now
[12:35pm] smorgan: When the code will die at the migration anyway
[12:36pm] ardissone|food: caprice of the ruling party
[12:36pm] mento: i'm sure we could argue for them to leave it, but nobody's going to give a shit if something breaks xpfe (and therefore us)
[12:36pm] ardissone|food: anyway, we're digressing
[12:36pm] smorgan: Well, people mostly don't care if *anything* breaks us, so...
[12:36pm] ardissone|food: i just wanted to mention those two things are there
[12:36pm] ardissone|food: for those inclined to take a look
[12:36pm] mento: that's only partially true
[12:37pm] mento: moco doesn't care
[12:37pm] mento: a bunch of developers still do though
[12:37pm] mento: but that's digression
[12:37pm] ardissone|food: 10.5
[12:37pm] ardissone|food: the cat is out of the bag
[12:37pm] mento: heh
[12:38pm] ardissone|food: status bar i think we're all in agreement on
[12:38pm] ardissone|food: bm bar is contentious as to the correct fix
[12:38pm] ardissone|food: toolbar icons we've not given much thought to, but we want to keep color
[12:39pm] smorgan: We just need lots of ideas and mockups for bookmark bar
[12:39pm] ss: I concur.
[12:39pm] ardissone|food: tab bar we've not thought about yet
[12:39pm] ss: One thing that beltzner mentioned for Firefox is that they might desaturate the icons (using canvas, I think) so they blend in better.
[12:39pm] smorgan: We may need to change them with the bmbar, certainly
[12:39pm] ss: I don't think we should do that...
[12:39pm] ss: But I thought it was worth mentioning.
[12:39pm] ardissone|food: ew
[12:40pm] ardissone|food: "you messed up my icon" 
[12:40pm] ss: (Just so we can all laugh.) 
[12:40pm] smorgan: "blend in"... are they completely jumping to the Apple UI camp?
[12:40pm] ardissone|food: i can't find ian's 2nd screenshot :9
[12:40pm] smorgan: UI elements should be hard to see!
[12:40pm] ss: Haha
[12:41pm] mento: tab bar isn't even filed yet, correct?
[12:41pm] ardissone|food: right
[12:41pm] ss: Nope
[12:41pm] smorgan: expects 10.6 to use the HGttG black ship motif for all chrome
[12:41pm] mento: neither are icons, right?
[12:41pm] ardissone|food: no, icons is "Theme update"
[12:41pm] smorgan: icons are part of the "theme refresh" bug, I think
[12:41pm] mento: oh, THAT bug, ok
[12:42pm] ss: Yeah...
[12:42pm] ss: I can change the summar
[12:42pm] ss: y
[12:42pm] smorgan: Is Jasper really around and planning on doing anything with the icons?
[12:42pm] ardissone|food: anyway, ian's dark screenshot is in the bug
[12:42pm] ss: "yes"
[12:42pm] ss: But no
[12:42pm] ss: We need to move on without him.
[12:42pm] ss: If he can do something for 2.0, great
[12:42pm] mento: hmpjh
[12:42pm] ss: But not for 1.6.
[12:42pm] ardissone|food: we actually do have the brighter set he made for us and we nixed
[12:42pm] mento: we should also get the quarantining right for 1.6
[12:43pm] ardissone|food: or part of it
[12:43pm] ardissone|food: yeah, the other question is what we take for 1.5.4 and what waits for 1.6 or 2.0
[12:43pm] ardissone|food: default apps needs to be 1.5.4, i think
[12:44pm] smorgan: I'd like the status bar in 1.5.x
[12:44pm] ss: I think we should take all the theme stuff for 1.5.4, personally.
[12:44pm] mento: depends on how close 1.5.4 is to 1.6
[12:44pm] ardissone|food: i tend to agree
[12:44pm] ss: Unless we plan on 1.6 by the end of the year.
[12:44pm] ss: 1.5.4 will be early December.
[12:44pm] ardissone|food: i don't see 1.6 before feb
[12:44pm] ardissone|food: sorry 
[12:44pm] ss: Firefox has to ship by a certain date in December.
[12:44pm] mento: early december?  that's not soon?
[12:45pm] mento: i meant something other than what i just wrote
[12:45pm] mento: early december?  that's so soon!
[12:45pm] ss: Yeah, well
[12:45pm] ss: There are reasons...
[12:45pm] mento: and those reasons apply to us?
[12:45pm] ss: Yes.
[12:45pm] mento: ok
[12:46pm] smorgan: If 1.6 is Feb, we aren't going to really be doing much for 2.0, I guess
[12:46pm] smorgan: Because we need 2.0 to not be slow
[12:46pm] ardissone|food: yeah
[12:46pm] ardissone|food: tabspose
[12:46pm] ss: We need 1.6 by the end of the year.
[12:46pm] ss: We should feature freeze a couple weeks after a1
[12:46pm] ss: And create b1
[12:46pm] ss: If nothing else lands, then so be it.
[12:47pm] mento: i require lunch.  i think things are mostly wrapped up here.
[12:47pm] ardissone|food: we have a lot of UI work to do before b1
[12:47pm] ss: Sure
[12:47pm] ss: Some of it's already close though, like the status bar.
[12:47pm] ss: And I can try and find a designer for the icons.
[12:47pm] ardissone|food: i mean fixing all the prefpanes
[12:47pm] ss: Hicks is booked through March, but might have some time for us.
[12:47pm] ss: prefpanes?
[12:48pm] ss: Those icons are actually fine, btw. 
[12:48pm] ardissone|food: s/all/webfeatures, mostly/
[12:48pm] smorgan: If we don't want 1.6 to run into 2.0, we'll need to start cutting things soon; I'm inclined to agree that we start locking down soon
[12:48pm] ss: I'm saying we can ship without it.
[12:49pm] smorgan: The more we cut fro 1.6, the better 2.0 will look 
[12:49pm] ardissone|food: we're up to 40 bugs targeted for 1.6
[12:49pm] ss: Haha, I agree.
[12:49pm] ss: Some of those have patches
[12:49pm] ss: And they'll get cut.
[12:49pm] smorgan: But I'll try to hit up some of the pref pane stuff soon
[12:49pm] ardissone|food: 2.0-quick, or 2.0-like-1.5-or-1.6
[12:49pm] ss: Like I said, two (maybe three) weeks after a1, we do b1
[12:49pm] ss: We have to ship right around when Gecko ships.
[12:49pm] smorgan: We can at least cut the one pref from Features that we all agree on 
[12:50pm] smorgan: ss: you mean 2.0 now, right?
[12:50pm] ss: Yes.
[12:50pm] ss: We have to ship a 1.6 asap and 2.0 when Gecko1.9 is done.
[12:50pm] ss: Within a month or two, I'd say.
[12:50pm] smorgan: Yes
[12:50pm] ss: Two is pushing it.
[12:50pm] kreeger left the chat room. (Quit: kreeger)
[12:50pm] ardissone|food: we also need to not be dead in the water re Safari 3 features now
[12:51pm] ss: I care less about that.
[12:51pm] ss: I know I should, but I don't.
[12:51pm] ss: Camino 2 won't have anything if we ship all our features in 1.6.
[12:51pm] ss: And we're running out of time.
[12:51pm] ardissone|food: yes
[12:52pm] ss: Let's ship the alpha
[12:52pm] ss: Get our 10.5 stuff in
[12:52pm] ss: And freeze for beta.
[12:52pm] ardissone|food: so
[12:52pm] ss: Take anything that is truly really close
[12:52pm] ardissone|food: we need bookmakr bar mockups
[12:52pm] ss: (As in, a day or two).
[12:52pm] ss: Yep
[12:52pm] ardissone|food: possibly tab bar mockups, too
[12:52pm] ardissone|food: and for pinkerton to clear his sr queue 
[12:53pm] smorgan: I don't think we should write off all the features today; we'll see where they are
[12:53pm] ss: Yeah
[12:53pm] ardissone|food: i agree
[12:53pm] smorgan: If we could get tab dnd, for example, I'd be willing to way a week
[12:53pm] ardissone|food: me too
[12:53pm] ss: Sure.
[12:53pm] smorgan: But yes, we need to tighten the 1.6 belt as necessary to ship it
[12:54pm] ardissone|food: i'd rather have a small 2.0 that we tout as "Gecko" than ship 1.6 with just swupdate
[12:54pm] smorgan: Because 2.0 is really not on our schedule in a sense
[12:54pm] smorgan: Remember, 1.6 already has scrolling tabs
[12:54pm] ss: And tab scrolling...
[12:54pm] ss:                           
[12:55pm] ardissone|food: that's not in 1.5?
[12:55pm] smorgan: Nope
[12:55pm] ss: Nope
[12:55pm] ss: Sadly
[12:55pm] ardissone|food: ok
[12:55pm] smorgan: So jeff won't sleep for a week or two, and we'll see where we are 
[12:56pm] ardissone|food: so, work on ideas for bookmakr bar
[12:56pm] jeff: smorgan: you can tear my WIP apart and we'll go from there 
[12:56pm] ardissone|food: anyone have anything else?
[12:57pm] ss: Yes
[12:57pm] ss: We're advertising on the Deck in November and December. 
[12:57pm] ardissone|food:                           
[12:57pm] ss: Look for us on the Deck sites.
[12:57pm] ss:    
[12:58pm] ardissone|food: let that inspire you to write good code and do good reviews 
[12:59pm] ardissone|food: ok, have a good week
[12:59pm] smorgan left the chat room.
[12:59pm] ss: Happy Halloween
[12:59pm] ardissone|food: oh, that, too
[1:00pm] jeff: Boo!
[1:00pm] jeff left the chat room. (Quit: jeff)