Status Meetings:2008-01-30:Log

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[01:46am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv.
[01:47am] You changed the topic to "".
[11:54am] smorgan joined the chat room.
[11:56am] murph joined the chat room.
[11:57am] cl joined the chat room.
[11:59am] cl: waits for op
[11:59am] cl: we really need all the devs to have aop in here
[12:00pm] pinkerton joined the chat room.
[12:00pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:01pm] cl was promoted to operator by you.
[12:01pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you.
[12:01pm] murph was promoted to operator by you.
[12:02pm] ardissone|away: ss_: you here?
[12:02pm] You are now known as ardissone|foraging.
[12:03pm] ardissone|foraging: we expecting mento?
[12:04pm] kreeger joined the chat room.
[12:04pm] ardissone|foraging: reminds everyone beltzner is in #camino 
[12:04pm] peeja joined the chat room.
[12:05pm] ardissone|foraging: so at least be polite in your distaste
[12:05pm] ardissone|foraging:
[12:06pm] cl: let's get this party started.
[12:06pm] kreeger was promoted to operator by cl.
[12:07pm] peeja was promoted to operator by cl.
[12:07pm] ardissone|foraging: ok
[12:07pm] cl: I think seven minutes late is plenty long enough 
[12:07pm] ardissone|foraging: everyone open your camino1.6b2 or newer to
[12:07pm] ardissone|foraging: so far, i've heard nothing, really, about b2
[12:08pm] pinkerton: hasn't crashed on me yet
[12:08pm] ardissone|foraging: so hopefully lots of people are using it and it's really good
[12:08pm] smorgan: Sucks less than b1; we know that much
[12:08pm] ardissone|foraging: that's always a plus
[12:09pm] ardissone|foraging: your co-workers have un-reverted from a1?
[12:09pm] smorgan: Yeah, b2 fixed his gmail crashing
[12:09pm] ardissone|foraging:
[12:10pm] ardissone|foraging: 1.6b3 is coming
[12:10pm] ardissone|foraging: we have a smattering of follow-ups from feature landings
[12:11pm] ardissone|foraging: as well as a handful of nib/strings-relevenat bugs yet
[12:11pm] ardissone|foraging: and several features still in the pipeline
[12:12pm] ardissone|foraging: (feedhandlers, tab drag, breakpad)
[12:12pm] cl: hm, that reminds me, where's jeff?
[12:12pm] ardissone|foraging: which we need to get in ASAP
[12:12pm] ardissone|foraging: so we can start shaking out their regressions
[12:13pm] ardissone|foraging: Sam has a designer working on polishing the toolbar icons to make them more distinct on 10.5
[12:13pm] cl: ah, murph just posted a review of tab dragging
[12:13pm] ardissone|foraging: but we still need more thought about tabs and bookmark bar
[12:13pm] ardissone|foraging: if you're not doing other things, please help with the follow-up bugs and nib/strings bugs
[12:14pm] ardissone|foraging: peeja: any progress on that last AS bug?
[12:14pm] ardissone|foraging: (bookmarks deleting folders)
[12:15pm] peeja: I've got some viable ideas now, I think
[12:15pm] ardissone|foraging:
[12:15pm] peeja: still not sure if they're going to work in the end
[12:15pm] peeja: but it's better than no direction at all 
[12:15pm] ardissone|foraging:
[12:16pm] ardissone|foraging: as far as i know, we haven't heard any other swupdate bugs other than the ones we know about
[12:16pm] smorgan: Yay Sparkle!
[12:16pm] ardissone|foraging: WebKit+proxy=crash is a very unhappy one
[12:16pm] ardissone|foraging: bad apple
[12:17pm] ardissone|foraging: as you might have heard earlier, murph gave jeff's tab dragging code a thorough going-over
[12:18pm] murph: yes, that kept me busy as of late, but overall it looks awesome with a few behavior and code issues to shake out
[12:18pm] pinkerton: can't wait!
[12:18pm] cl: are we going to block 1.6 on that?
[12:18pm] ardissone|foraging: you have only one open search follow-up left, correct?
[12:19pm] ardissone|foraging: if we can chain jeff to a desk until it's done, we'll block b3 on it
[12:19pm] cl: haha
[12:19pm] murph: hmm, i believe so, and i can tackle that one in no time...
[12:19pm] ardissone|foraging: no new features after b3
[12:19pm] cl: right, I knew that.
[12:19pm] cl: that's what I meant by "block 1.6" 
[12:20pm] ardissone|foraging: nothing new on feedhandlers since last week
[12:20pm] ardissone|foraging: breakpad?
[12:20pm] murph: actually, two OS bugs, the one about install names vs. detection names is on my list too
[12:20pm] ardissone|foraging: oh, right
[12:20pm] smorgan: Sorry, I've been pretty busy
[12:20pm] ardissone|foraging: smorgan: have you had time to start poking the reporter app?
[12:21pm] cl: pinkerton, I'd welcome any comments you might have on our prefpane dev docs, since smorgan and mento have already given it the once-over
[12:21pm] pinkerton: url?
[12:21pm] smorgan: I'm trying to make time for it
[12:21pm] cl: see and bug 384800
[12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: the in-tree code sounds like it might not be in as good of shape as we thought
[12:21pm] pinkerton: ty
[12:21pm] cl: np
[12:22pm] Simon joined the chat room.
[12:22pm] ardissone|foraging: anyone else have a 1.6-status update?
[12:22pm] ardissone|foraging: next Gecko is scheduled for Tues
[12:22pm] ardissone|foraging: if you don't ever see sam anymore, it's because he's the lead for this release
[12:23pm] ardissone|foraging: and it became a firedrill mon night
[12:23pm] ardissone|foraging: code-wise, we're all landed for 1.5.5
[12:23pm] ardissone|foraging: relnotes are in mento's queue
[12:24pm] ardissone|foraging: hopefully we can have a build for RC testing tonight
[12:24pm] jeff joined the chat room.
[12:24pm] ardissone|foraging: without mento or sam, the tinderboxen section has no new info
[12:25pm] jeff was promoted to operator by you.
[12:25pm] ardissone|foraging: quick, grab the chains and chain him to a desk! 
[12:25pm] ardissone|foraging: dev docs
[12:25pm] ardissone|foraging: the prefpane docs are probably in pretty good shape
[12:26pm] ardissone|foraging: there are still some issues with the sample code/sample nib
[12:26pm] cl: Yeah. I probably need to diddle with that a little more
[12:26pm] ardissone|foraging: the other thing it would be good to have
[12:27pm] ardissone|foraging: are some examples (mxr links) of places in our code where we do the different things required
[12:27pm] ardissone|foraging: to do our different fun things
[12:27pm] cl: I probably can't do the nib since I don't have IB2, but I do need to do some more messing with the project file.
[12:28pm] ardissone|foraging: like call private APIs and things-only-in-the-latest-OS-or-SDK
[12:28pm] ardissone|foraging: because we're seeing a lot of "need" to do that now, and newer/younger devs don't have that experience
[12:28pm] ardissone|foraging: if you have a chance, pop some examples into
[12:29pm] cl: jeff: he's looking at you 
[12:29pm] cl: someone should mention that to markus as well
[12:29pm] cl: and wevah, if he's ever around
[12:29pm] ardissone|foraging: well, we need examples, first 
[12:30pm] ardissone|foraging: in terms of bugs, we "only" fixed 16 last week
[12:30pm] cl: Oh, I was thinking that jeff could give an example, at least inasmuch as he got that QuickLook thing working on the DL manager
[12:30pm] cl: i know that hasn't made it into the tree, of course
[12:30pm] ardissone|foraging: no, see my comment in that bug 
[12:31pm] cl: but are there actually any examples in our code right now of private API use?
[12:31pm] ardissone|foraging: spelling, for one
[12:31pm] cl: Oh, that's a private API?
[12:31pm] murph: yeah, learnSpelling: still is  
[12:31pm] ardissone|foraging: some of the quarantine/metadata stuff i think is private, at least on some OS
[12:31pm] ardissone|foraging: more of spelling is public on 10.5 SDK
[12:32pm] cl: smorgan did the quarantine stuff, right?
[12:32pm] smorgan: Private Cocoa and private C are very different animals
[12:32pm] cl: I'll proxy for Julian and dig up the spelling.
[12:32pm] smorgan: The latter is what mento did with metadata
[12:33pm] ardissone|foraging: the more examples of the crazier, the merrier 
[12:33pm] cl: haha
[12:33pm] ardissone|foraging: anyway
[12:34pm] ardissone|foraging: smorgan: would it help you if we move some of your sr queue to pink or mento?
[12:36pm] smorgan: It's probably not a big deal either way
[12:37pm] ardissone|foraging: ok
[12:38pm] ardissone|foraging: bugs
[12:38pm] ardissone|foraging: mento's not here; he was the one objecting to only checking the default browser once
[12:38pm] ardissone|foraging: no-one commented on Bug 413501 - Provide a one-per-version startup warning about problem hacks in the past week
[12:39pm] ardissone|foraging: does that mean there are no objections, or no-one looked at it?
[12:40pm] ardissone|foraging: hello?
[12:41pm] cl: I haven't looked at it
[12:41pm] cl: other than my initial comment
[12:41pm] ardissone|foraging: pinkerton: what say you?
[12:41pm] pinkerton: let me look
[12:43pm] pinkerton: that list could get long, and a dialog with lots of text could be dismissed easily w/out reading
[12:43pm] pinkerton: esp after the "wanna make us your default browser puuuhleeeze!?!?!?" dialog
[12:43pm] ardissone|foraging: that only runs on second launch
[12:43pm] smorgan: pinkerton: they are unlikely to see both at the same time
[12:43pm] ardissone|foraging: s/second/second and subsequent/
[12:44pm] pinkerton: if we know they won't work, why not just disable them?
[12:44pm] smorgan: We don't
[12:44pm] smorgan: And we can't
[12:44pm] pinkerton: hmm
[12:44pm] smorgan: Well, I guess we could delete them and relaunch
[12:44pm] smorgan: But we don't know
[12:44pm] pinkerton: i guess if we can find a way to make it not unweildy, we can give it a shot
[12:44pm] smorgan: I'm unwilling to go to the trouble of doing a version-by-version audit during every release
[12:44pm] pinkerton: i'm not sure about making UI to appease the whiners on VT
[12:45pm] ardissone|foraging: how about the whiners in talkback?
[12:45pm] smorgan: Or bugzilla?
[12:45pm] smorgan: Or feedback?
[12:45pm] ardissone|foraging: or the forum?
[12:45pm] smorgan: Which we have to take our time to deal with?
[12:45pm] pinkerton: ok
[12:45pm] smorgan: And even thought most of VT/MU is a cesspool, having negative comments everywhere will influence potential users
[12:46pm] pinkerton: i just worry that the more info/text we put in their face, the less they'll read
[12:46pm] pinkerton: i understand your point
[12:46pm] pinkerton: it's valid
[12:47pm] smorgan: Sure, some people will ignore it
[12:47pm] pinkerton: i guess we can mock it up and try rather than arguing the abstract
[12:48pm] ardissone|foraging: try it out in b3?
[12:50pm] ardissone|foraging: Bug 413910 - Enable "Prevent sites from changing, moving or resizing windows" by default
[12:50pm] ardissone|foraging: any objections to our doing this?
[12:51pm] smorgan: I think we should do it trunk-only
[12:51pm] smorgan: I'm not confident we'll have enough time to gauge potential impact before 1.6
[12:52pm] ardissone|foraging: k
[12:52pm] ardissone|foraging: other objections?
[12:52pm] smorgan: (I'm fine being overruled, as I'm not adamant; just my 2c)
[12:53pm] ardissone|foraging: it's a valid concern
[12:53pm] pinkerton: i surf with it all the time, i have yet to find a problem
[12:53pm] ardissone|foraging: a number of us have been running with it forever with almost 0 side effects
[12:53pm] pinkerton: but i only surf pr0n
[12:53pm] ardissone|foraging: does fx do it?
[12:53pm] smorgan: I use it as well, but I really just don't visit that many sites
[12:54pm] cl: yeah, I've been using it forever as well
[12:55pm] cl: I highly doubt it's going to break anything that popup blocking doesn't also break
[12:55pm] cl: but I'm OK with it going trunk-only
[12:55pm] pinkerton: i guess i am as well, but we are taking some pretty big things for b3 still
[12:55pm] ardissone|foraging: fx allows moving/resizing, but not changing z
[12:55pm] ardissone|foraging: (by default)
[12:56pm] ardissone|foraging: we'll let mento weigh in and see which way he goes
[12:57pm] ardissone|foraging: i guess
[12:57pm] ardissone|foraging: anything else this week?
[12:59pm] peeja left the chat room. (Quit: peeja)
[12:59pm] ardissone|foraging: ok, everyone have a good week, work on the big features or follow-up/nib/strings bugs
[12:59pm] smorgan left the chat room.