Status Meetings:2008-11-19:Log
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[02:04am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv. [02:04am] You changed the topic to "http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2008-11-19:Agenda". [02:04am] cl|zzz was promoted to operator by you. [11:42am] murph joined the chat room. [11:46am] ss left the chat room. (Ping timeout) [11:47am] isaac left the chat room. (Ping timeout) [11:47am] isaac joined the chat room. [11:48am] ss joined the chat room. [11:48am] ss was promoted to operator by chanserv. [11:54am] isaac was promoted to operator by you. [11:54am] murph was promoted to operator by you. [12:02pm] smorgan joined the chat room. [12:02pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by cl|zzz. [12:02pm] peeja joined the chat room. [12:02pm] peeja was promoted to operator by you. [12:02pm] jeff joined the chat room. [12:03pm] jeff was promoted to operator by you. [12:04pm] ardissone: did pink wander off? [12:05pm] cl|zzz is now known as cl. [12:08pm] hendy joined the chat room. [12:08pm] hendy was promoted to operator by you. [12:08pm] mento joined the chat room. [12:08pm] mento was promoted to operator by chanserv. [12:10pm] ardissone: ok, wherever pink ran off to, he can find us when he returns [12:11pm] ardissone: everyone please open http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2008-11-19:Agenda in your Camino 2.0a1 or newer [12:11pm] ardissone: i'm going to swap the order back [12:11pm] ardissone: we released 1.6.5 yesterday [12:12pm] ardissone: once again proving that a bread-truck can't keep us down [12:12pm] ardissone: i haven't had a chance to look for any feedback yet [12:13pm] pinkerton joined the chat room. [12:13pm] smorgan: versiontracker users think we are good for spamming [12:13pm] pinkerton: moof [12:13pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by you. [12:13pm] smorgan: So I guess that's a sign of popuplarity? [12:13pm] ardissone: also that we've shrunk the download to only 5k [12:14pm] ardissone: we apparently use some new form of compression algorithm straight from mento's brain [12:14pm] pinkerton: hot [12:15pm] ardissone: then 1.6.6 will be on the table next month as MoCo EOLs Gecko 1.8.1 for non-Thunderbird applications [12:16pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 1.6.x? [12:18pm] ardissone: 2.0a1, then [12:18pm] ardissone: it's been out for a month now [12:18pm] ardissone: give-or-take [12:18pm] ardissone: we only had 10 new talkback incidents over the last week [12:19pm] ardissone: which is 1/3 of what we've been averaging [12:19pm] pinkerton: that's good, right? [12:19pm] ardissone: i think it's bad [12:19pm] ardissone: given how crashy Gecko on 10.4 is [12:19pm] ardissone: there were no new crashes from that [12:20pm] ardissone: so i'm afraid people have given up [12:20pm] pinkerton: oh [12:20pm] smorgan: Or they all bought new computers [12:20pm] pinkerton: oh 10 total, not 10 ones we haven't seen. [12:20pm] ardissone: true, the new MacBooks must be shippinh [12:21pm] ardissone: right, +10 last week [12:21pm] ardissone: instead of +30 [12:21pm] pinkerton: well maybe we need an a2? [12:21pm] ardissone: other than the fact we've already moved the numbers to b1 [12:22pm] ardissone: the Gecko fixes haven't landed yet [12:22pm] pinkerton: heh [12:22pm] ardissone: on 1.9 [12:23pm] ardissone: i'd much rather push to b1, anyway, but it's blocked by that crash and tab dragging... [12:23pm] smorgan: Someone should nominate that probably [12:23pm] smorgan: It's been baking about a week, right? [12:23pm] ardissone: smorgan: will you look at the new swizzling stacks? [12:23pm] ardissone: 11-09 [12:23pm] ardissone: so yeah, a week [12:24pm] smorgan: ss: is that enough bake for 1.9.0.6 landing? [12:24pm] smorgan: ardissone: can't really tell anything; looks like some event was destined for something that's gone [12:24pm] smorgan: But there's good news [12:25pm] smorgan: That may be the same bug as the other crasher if these are 10.4 [12:25pm] ardissone: Darwin 8.11.0? [12:25pm] ss: 1.9.0.6 won't start taking checkins for two or three weeks. [12:25pm] smorgan: I forget how they line up [12:25pm] smorgan: ss: ew [12:25pm] ardissone: 8.11.0 is 10.4.11 [12:25pm] ss: And 1.9.0.5 is basically frozen. [12:26pm] smorgan: Hm, mostly not 10.4 then; drat [12:26pm] smorgan: Possibly related to the key loop stuff? [12:26pm] ardissone: even better [12:27pm] ardissone: ss: is it likely that will land right away when 1.9.06 does oepn? [12:27pm] ardissone: open? [12:27pm] smorgan: But I saw a crash with a stack like that on a PPC 10.4 machine, and when I debugged it it was a graphics context that was gone and had messed up other stuff as a result [12:27pm] ss: ardissone: I really don't know which bug you're talking about. [12:27pm] ardissone: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=458961 [12:27pm] ardissone: the 100s+ crashes/day bug [12:27pm] smorgan: Also known as "10.4 = epic fail" [12:28pm] ss: We'll only take that if it actually reduces the number of crashes [12:28pm] ardissone: (all the way up to 10.5.0b5, too) [12:28pm] ss: Which we'll base on Firefox 3.1b2 numbers [12:28pm] ss: So I don't know when it's likely to land [12:29pm] ardissone: well, i suppose if we're ready and MoCo is not, we can minibranch that patch [12:29pm] ardissone: on that note [12:30pm] ardissone: i see we have murph in the audience, so let's put him on the hot seat [12:30pm] ardissone: to tell us about our draggable future [12:30pm] murph: hehehe [12:30pm] murph: I have the patch v2 ready to submit in about a half hour [12:31pm] ardissone: [12:31pm] ardissone: best news i've heard in weeks! [12:31pm] murph: I'm sorry this one took so long, there were a good bit of changes to make it more robust and elegant when tabs close [12:31pm] murph: and I should have plenty of time to respond more quickly with another refresh if it's needed [12:32pm] ardissone: good (though let's hope it's not ) [12:32pm] ardissone: and while you wait on review, you can go back to some of the other bugs? [12:33pm] murph: yes, I sure can [12:33pm] ardissone: how hard would hooking tabsposé up to the key loop be? [12:35pm] ardissone: since it's a bit silly we've put all this effort into the loop, and then our big new feature is completely inaccessible to the keyboard [12:36pm] murph: hmmmm, I don't think it'd be hard at all... [12:37pm] murph: I will definitely take a look at it [12:37pm] ardissone: ok, sounds good [12:37pm] ardissone: jeff: any news, tabsposé or otherwise, from you? [12:38pm] jeff: no [12:38pm] ardissone: ok [12:38pm] ardissone: philippe is working on the icon [12:38pm] ardissone: which is heading towards a consensus [12:39pm] ardissone: so we should be good for landing the toolbar hookup for b1 [12:40pm] ardissone: hendy: do you have anything in the pot right now? [12:40pm] hendy: not much [12:40pm] hendy: i'd like people's opinion on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326872 [12:41pm] hendy: specifically, the 2px higher tabs [12:41pm] ardissone: yeah [12:41pm] hendy: i've been using them for over a week [12:41pm] ardissone: this image, specifically: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=346960 [12:41pm] hendy: i don't think i'll be able to go back to the old ones - they look to cramped to me now [12:41pm] hendy: i get nice crisp favicons too [12:42pm] ardissone: (this also gives us 16x16 site icons in the tabs, obviously) [12:42pm] ardissone: i say "ship it" but I don't get to make that call [12:43pm] hendy: the fix involves a few lines of code, a change to a nib, and resizing of 5 or 6 tiffs [12:43pm] hendy: the themers will have to modify their images [12:43pm] smorgan: It looks odd to me in a screenshot, but I'm inclined to say we land it and try it out for a while [12:43pm] smorgan: I think that's probably the only way we'll get a good sense of it [12:44pm] hendy: k, i'll get a patch together [12:44pm] smorgan: pinkerton: does that seem reasonable? [12:45pm] pinkerton: looks [12:45pm] ardissone: (i think the images in the bg tabs look pushed higher in that screenshot, whereas now they're pushed towards the lower edge) [12:45pm] pinkerton: i say ship it [12:45pm] ardissone: weeps not for those 2px [12:45pm] smorgan: I'm sure we'll get screaming about it [12:45pm] ardissone: me too [12:46pm] smorgan: "I need those 2px more than my eyes!" [12:46pm] hendy: ardissone: that shifting can be tweaked [12:46pm] ss: Should we rename them too? [12:46pm] ss: The files I mean [12:46pm] ardissone: haha [12:46pm] ss: What's the affect if someone replaces a 24px with a 22px version? [12:46pm] ss: Meaning: Themers will do this. [12:46pm] smorgan: It'll look odd, probably [12:46pm] ss: If we rename them, their changes will have no affect. [12:46pm] ss: effect* [12:46pm] hendy: the tabs will look shorted [12:46pm] hendy: shorter [12:47pm] smorgan: The themes need to be updated either way [12:47pm] smorgan: I don't want to make extra work for us [12:47pm] ss: Yeah [12:47pm] ardissone: file renames are a pita [12:47pm] ardissone: says the guy who did it the last time [12:47pm] smorgan: Besides, if I ever do my tab drawing overhaul we'll have new file names anyway [12:48pm] ardissone: we'll just post about it, and davedit will surely do so on PMC, too [12:48pm] cl: a=me on the taller tabs [12:48pm] hendy: sweet [12:48pm] ardissone: hendy: your other site icon patch is still in want of a reviewer, no? [12:48pm] cl: I think part of the "they look higher in bg tabs" bit is that the Bugzilla favicon just looks that way [12:48pm] hendy: yeah [12:48pm] smorgan: Shall we switch them to match the bookmark bar gradient as long as we are making new images? [12:48pm] ardissone: possibly [12:49pm] ardissone: need a nice globe icon for one site [12:49pm] smorgan: Right now they are almost-but-not-quite the same, and have a shiney line [12:49pm] smorgan: shiny [12:49pm] ardissone: hendy: yeah to cl, or yeah to me? [12:49pm] hendy: both [12:49pm] ardissone: ok [12:50pm] ardissone: someone please also review the "choose the best sized icon in multiple-member cases" [12:50pm] hendy: though i probably need to update the patch [12:50pm] ardissone: so the bbc can stop sucking [12:50pm] ardissone: ok, then hold off on reviewing [12:50pm] ardissone: but can we get a volunteer hendy can r? [12:51pm] ardissone: ss: any icon updates from you? [12:52pm] ss: No [12:52pm] ardissone: i'm assuming no, since you haven't done the backout yet, eituer [12:52pm] smorgan: I can do the r if no-one else can, but it may be a bit slow [12:53pm] hendy: thanks; no great hurry [12:53pm] cl: I'm happy to do the review on that patch [12:53pm] ardissone: we have possibly cl and possibly murph [12:53pm] cl: that'll save smorgan's time for something more important. [12:53pm] hendy: cool [12:53pm] hendy: that's sounds good to me [12:53pm] ardissone: i'll land Gecko strings today [12:54pm] ardissone: and we can start weeding out the files that we never use [12:54pm] ardissone: and the files we use but which the string bundle override ignores, or something like that [12:54pm] ardissone: and we can pretend something will fix the dtds [12:54pm] ardissone: cl: how's batwood and flashblock? [12:55pm] cl: still no word [12:55pm] ardissone: should cl just pick it up at this point? [12:56pm] ardissone: and i'll make my weekly weep for breakpad ;) [12:56pm] ardissone: oh [12:56pm] ardissone: also [12:57pm] ardissone: now that Safari has shipped with Google Safe Browsing, should we check in with ian fette and see the status of that licensed data/v2 protocol situation? [12:58pm] ardissone: i suppose Safari could be using v1 and caching the data at Apple, since Apple does have Akamai [12:59pm] ardissone: (where by "we" I mean "pinkerton" ;) ) [1:00pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 2.x? [1:00pm] murph: has been crossing his fingers since he saw that feature in Safari [1:00pm] smorgan: I started working on the exception UI this weekend [1:00pm] smorgan: But I didn't finish, obviously [1:00pm] ardissone: :) [1:01pm] ardissone: fyi, i did some updates to Deveoplment:Reviewing based on some questions from ilya this weekend; in particular, I split code style and "how to put stuff in a patch" into Development:Coding [1:01pm] pinkerton: i have email sent to ian already [1:01pm] ardissone: :D [1:01pm] pinkerton: he's in africa until the end of the week [1:01pm] ardissone: haha [1:02pm] ardissone: at Google Timbucktu? [1:03pm] ardissone: So if you're used to finding something in Development:Reviewing (or pointing people at it), it may have moved to Development:Coding [1:03pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else today? [1:03pm] hendy: if someone knowledgeable about gecko and the build system has the time, i'd like some help on getting camino to compile with the places backend. no great hurry - it's just something that i've been trying out and failing at. [1:06pm] ardissone: ok, please do mind the review queues [1:07pm] ardissone: everyone please watch those, fix things, and have a good week! :)