Status Meetings:2008-11-26:Log

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[01:45am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv.
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[01:45am] ardissone: lag++ 
[01:45am] cl|zzz was promoted to operator by you.
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[12:04pm] ardissone: i'll be back in about 10mins with relaible internet
[12:04pm] ardissone: sorry 
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[12:16pm] hendy was promoted to operator by you.
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[12:17pm] ardissone: lovely lag 
[12:17pm] cl: all that noise must mean it's time to start the meeting
[12:17pm] ardissone: haha
[12:17pm] cl: I already invited him once. I don't think he's actually around 
[12:17pm] ardissone: oh
[12:17pm] ardissone: k
[12:17pm] ardissone: first off, everyone say hello to ilya
[12:18pm] ardissone: he's decided it would be fun to hack our downloads code 
[12:18pm] hendy: heya
[12:18pm] ardissone: then, please open your Camino 2.0a1 or newer to
[12:19pm] cl: (peeja and kreeger both, btw.)
[12:19pm] ardissone: (peeja often is, but yeah; today especially)
[12:20pm] ardissone: since we're all still asleep, first up is 1.6.5
[12:20pm] ardissone: we had 80 PPC crashes in the first week
[12:20pm] ardissone: mostly plugins, and random hex
[12:20pm] ardissone: then, 2.0a1
[12:20pm] ardissone: it's been out over a month now
[12:20pm] ardissone: in the past week, we added only *3* crashes
[12:21pm] ardissone: so i guess all the PPC and 10.4 users finally gave up on it 
[12:21pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on those releases?
[12:21pm] ilya: does that include newer nightlies, too?
[12:21pm] ardissone: no, just the a1 build
[12:22pm] ardissone: i didn't look at the nightly results last night
[12:22pm] ardissone: but the other day, there were about 30 or so instances of bug 466531
[12:22pm] ardissone: (that's the PPC crash regression from the 15 nov)
[12:22pm] ilya: could be partly that people who try the alphas just tend to use the latest nightlies
[12:22pm] ardissone: yeah
[12:23pm] ardissone: but we do need to think about trying to push out b1
[12:23pm] ardissone: since we have dragging now
[12:23pm] ilya: (yay!)
[12:23pm] ardissone: if you haven't seen murph since Monday, be sure to high-five him when you do 
[12:24pm] ardissone: my thoughts, which are somewhat in line with Sam's
[12:24pm] smorgan: Is there even the slightest chance we'll get the 10.4 crasher in the foreseeable future?
[12:24pm] ardissone: no
[12:24pm] ardissone: but we can minibranch it
[12:24pm] smorgan: Okay
[12:24pm] ardissone: assuming we get a fix for the PPC crash
[12:24pm] ardissone: that was my thought
[12:25pm] smorgan: wonders how a topcrash with a low-risk fix cant land
[12:25pm] ardissone: because MoCo totally screwed up 2 releases while Sam was on vacation
[12:25pm] smorgan: I thought fixing huge problems was, you know, the point of those releases ;P
[12:25pm] ardissone: they're going back to ground-zero on branch approvals
[12:26pm] ardissone: and re-figuring out how to do things
[12:26pm] ardissone: so as not to screw up 
[12:26pm] ardissone: however, as the PPC crash shows, they still have work to do  
[12:26pm] smorgan: Here's my tip: not fixing top crashers *is* screwing up
[12:26pm] smorgan: anyway, minibranch sounds good
[12:27pm] ardissone: we could also minibranch a PPC fix, if needed
[12:27pm] ardissone: just need to see what the schedule looks like when a fix for that is in hand
[12:27pm] pinkerton: seems like we're going to have to get more comfortable with that as we move forward
[12:28pm] ardissone: as long as things actually land *eventually* it's not so bad
[12:28pm] ardissone: but having to minibranch every patch for every release sucks
[12:28pm] ardissone: see: Camino 1.0.x 
[12:28pm] pinkerton: agreed
[12:29pm] ardissone: anyway
[12:29pm] ardissone: that's roughly my b1 plan
[12:29pm] ardissone: then we'll do a b2 with l10n freeze
[12:30pm] ardissone: assuming we don't have to wait for too long to see a fix for the PPC bug
[12:30pm] ardissone: (and thus for b1)
[12:30pm] ardissone: stuart did some more minusing this week/weekend
[12:30pm] ardissone: so the 2.0 list looks a little better
[12:30pm] cl: at least we have a better handle on what that awful crasher *is* now.
[12:31pm] ardissone: mhm
[12:32pm] smorgan: I'll commit to absolutely doing at least the cert exception UI over break
[12:32pm] smorgan: And hopefully some other stuff
[12:32pm] ardissone: cool
[12:32pm] ardissone: murph said yesterday he was eager to do background dragging and scroll-dragging
[12:32pm] ardissone: so i assume that's where he'll be working
[12:33pm] ardissone: smorgan also landed the tabsposé toolbar icon this week
[12:33pm] ardissone: so we're down a couple of bugs in that list
[12:33pm] jeff:
[12:33pm] ardissone: (I have a shared search for that, if you want it)
[12:34pm] ardissone: hehe
[12:34pm] ardissone: jeff: any turkey-influence hacking on the horizon?
[12:34pm] jeff: so would we want a quicklook feature for our downloads?
[12:34pm] jeff: like want me to dust off my patch and submit my fixed one?
[12:35pm] ardissone: if you have a fixed one, i'd like to see it, yes 
[12:35pm] ardissone: (the manager in me would prefer you worked on tabsposé  )
[12:35pm] smorgan: I'd rather see button behavior for tabspose though
[12:35pm] jeff: and yes, I am home and have lots of free time and tab dragging is done so I don't have that beast over my head thanks to murph
[12:35pm] smorgan: is apparently turning into a manager 
[12:36pm] jeff: smorgan: I'll file my TPS reports later this week
[12:36pm] ardissone: Tabsposé is in want of a lot of polish, is all
[12:36pm] ardissone: and for a major new feature, it needs at least some of that done
[12:36pm] smorgan: I'll take a look at the XML thing soon, since that's bad
[12:37pm] ardissone: thanks
[12:37pm] ardissone: it may be debug-only, though it's still bizarre
[12:37pm] ardissone: hendy: your tabs patch needs a reviewer, right?
[12:37pm] hendy: yep
[12:38pm] ardissone: can we get a volunteer? 
[12:38pm] jeff: I can do it
[12:38pm] ardissone: sold
[12:38pm] ardissone: !
[12:38pm] ardissone: thanks jeff
[12:39pm] ardissone: wow, i totally forgot to update that section 
[12:39pm] ardissone: hendy: anything else on tap for you?
[12:40pm] hendy: not really; i might look at path popup or fullscreen, or those utf-8 bugs
[12:40pm] hendy: unless anyone has other suggestions?
[12:40pm] cl: did wevah ever post a WIP patch for the path popup thing?
[12:41pm] hendy: he gave the private method for it
[12:41pm] cl: k
[12:41pm] ardissone: the autocomplete utf-8 one is a bit visually disturbing
[12:41pm] ardissone: since it's physically adjacent to the location bar 
[12:42pm] ardissone: beyond that, i have no further suggestions 
[12:42pm] ardissone: cl: any news from batwood?
[12:42pm] cl: nothing yet, so I guess I'll start looking into bringing that patch up myself.
[12:43pm] ardissone: sounds good
[12:43pm] ardissone: anything else from you?
[12:44pm] cl: well, one small thing I'd appreciate some help with
[12:44pm] cl: bug 360858
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[12:44pm] cl: see comment 4 there for my problem
[12:45pm] ardissone: if nothing else, cc murph and say "see comment 4" 
[12:45pm] cl: yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was hoping he'd be here today.
[12:45pm] ardissone: heh
[12:46pm] ardissone: ilya and kreeger have recently gone one round in the download code cleanup review 
[12:46pm] cl: other than that, no I really don't have anything
[12:47pm] cl: yeah, I'm glad to see someone tackling that
[12:47pm] ardissone: ilya's growl patch is waiting for an opening in stuart's queue again
[12:47pm] ardissone: ilya: anything to add?
[12:48pm] ilya: the growl patch has some remaining TODOs that might be easy to answer, or might not
[12:48pm] ilya: also, do we want Growl for 2.0?
[12:50pm] ardissone: my thought is that'd be nice to have if it is ready, but we wouldn't hold b2 (feature freeze) for it
[12:51pm] ilya: I think the code could be ready in time
[12:51pm] ilya: do we know what we're doing with the framework?
[12:51pm] ardissone: i can't judge how invasive the code changes might be (thus how risky the patch)
[12:51pm] ardissone: heh
[12:51pm] ardissone: i'd forgotten about that mess 
[12:53pm] ilya: is there still an objection to bundling it?
[12:54pm] ardissone: possibly; how large is it these days?
[12:54pm] ardissone: also, firefox doesn't bundle it, iirc; how do they handle it?
[12:55pm] ilya: 248k, I think
[12:55pm] smorgan: Isn't there some shim framework?
[12:55pm] smorgan: I assume Firefox would be bundling that
[12:55pm] ilya: actually, 232k
[12:56pm] smorgan: Hm, or not
[12:57pm] ardissone: apparently
[12:57pm] smorgan: Are they just compiling it in?
[12:57pm] ardissone: plus 2 files in
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[12:58pm] ilya: without headers (can we strip those?) 140k
[12:58pm] ilya: seems like they are
[1:00pm] ardissone: they seem not to have source viewer on their site 
[1:01pm] smorgan: I'd rather take 140k than statically link our own special stripped-down version; that seems overly painful
[1:02pm] ardissone: this won't screw up those of us who don't want the crazy Growling, will it?
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[1:02pm] smorgan: My understanding from the discussion before is that this does nothing if Growl itself isn't installed
[1:03pm] cl: yeah, as long as we don't end up like C-crap with its permanent Growl notifications
[1:03pm] ardissone: (or enable other apps to start Growling at me  )
[1:03pm] smorgan: This doesn't include a Growl installation
[1:03pm] smorgan: IIRC, there are two frameworks
[1:04pm] smorgan: The "bootstrap and install Growl" and the smaller "talk to Growl if it's there"
[1:04pm] smorgan: We won't ship anything that causes Growl to happen for users who don't explicitly want it
[1:04pm] ardissone: k
[1:04pm] ilya: I think that's right, about the "talk to Growl if it's there"
[1:05pm] ilya: I can check with Growl devs
[1:05pm] ardissone: what about l10n?
[1:05pm] ardissone: does the framework have localized resources?
[1:06pm] ilya: I think about 8 strings
[1:06pm] ardissone: and will we need to add new nibs/strings of our own?
[1:06pm] ilya: oh, sorry
[1:06pm] ilya: the framework is localized, I think
[1:06pm] ilya: the patch has about 8 strings
[1:07pm] smorgan: Why would it have l10n?
[1:07pm] smorgan: I thought all the UI was at the other end
[1:07pm] ilya: well, we say things like "Download complete"
[1:07pm] smorgan: Oh, those
[1:07pm] smorgan: But that's not part of the Framework
[1:08pm] ilya: right
[1:08pm] ilya: I think the framework shouldn't have an l10n issues
[1:08pm] ilya: but I'll check
[1:09pm] ardissone: ok, since it's now 10 after 1, let's have ilya report back with further info
[1:10pm] ardissone: does anyone have anything else on 2.0-anything?
[1:11pm] ardissone: ok then
[1:11pm] ardissone: we had a good week this week, despite what the queues say 
[1:11pm] ardissone: we fixed 11 bugs and refilled the queues with new patches to the point that they seem unchanged 
[1:12pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else?
[1:14pm] ardissone: ok then
[1:14pm] ardissone: sorry about the delay today
[1:14pm] ardissone: everyone have a good week, don't eat too much turkey, but don't forget to keep your eye on your queues and the 2.0 list during the football games ;)
[1:15pm] hendy: turkey? football?  :P
[1:15pm] ardissone: hehe
[1:15pm] ardissone: you have any Kiwi holidays coming up, hendy?
[1:15pm] cl: hands hendy some mutton and an All-Blacks match
[1:16pm] hendy: just christmas
[1:16pm] ardissone: if so, enjoy them ;)
[1:16pm] ardissone: ah, too bad :(
[1:16pm] ardissone: so just have a good regular week ;)
[1:17pm] hendy: thanks :)
[1:17pm] ardissone: (it's crazy football, anyway)
[1:18pm] hendy: Aussie Rules is crazier