Status Meetings:2009-01-28:Log

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[02:14am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv.
[02:14am] You changed the topic to "".
[11:49am] murph joined the chat room.
[12:00pm] murph was promoted to operator by you.
[12:01pm] hendy joined the chat room.
[12:01pm] jeff joined the chat room.
[12:01pm] jeff was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:01pm] hendy was promoted to operator by you.
[12:01pm] ardissone: jeff 
[12:01pm] jeff: yea I know
[12:01pm] mento joined the chat room.
[12:01pm] mento was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:01pm] jeff: shrugs head
[12:01pm] kreeger joined the chat room.
[12:02pm] kreeger was promoted to operator by you.
[12:02pm] peeja_ joined the chat room.
[12:02pm] peeja_ was promoted to operator by you.
[12:02pm] ardissone: mento: do you know if we're expecting your compatriots?
[12:02pm] mento: dunno but i know pink's around somewhere
[12:03pm] ardissone: if you stumble upon him, can you remind him it's Wed Camino meeting time? 
[12:05pm] mento: pink not coming
[12:05pm] ardissone: ok
[12:06pm] ardissone: thanks
[12:06pm] ardissone: let's give smorgan a few and then get started
[12:06pm] smorgan joined the chat room.
[12:06pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you.
[12:06pm] ardissone: or 30s 
[12:07pm] ardissone: ok, everyone open your Camino 2.0b1 or newer to
[12:09pm] ardissone: there's nothing really new in crashes
[12:09pm] ardissone: we only added 10 in the last week
[12:09pm] ardissone: the new crash is nsObjectFrame::PaintPlugin
[12:10pm] ardissone: which is Gecko and plugins, but there was nothing useful in the reports
[12:11pm] ardissone: on the 1.6.x front, nothing new either
[12:11pm] ardissone: talkback still refuses to cooperate
[12:12pm] ardissone: the only real other issue we have with 1.6.x is the 10.3 OpenSearch bug
[12:13pm] ilya joined the chat room.
[12:13pm] ardissone: and if i can catch murph some time, we can hopefully do more investigation
[12:13pm] ilya was promoted to operator by you.
[12:13pm] murph: yes I definitely want to take care of that!
[12:14pm] ardissone: on to 2.0 then
[12:14pm] ardissone: we've discovered two new old Gecko bugs this week
[12:15pm] ardissone: Bug 474406 - CPU usage peaking at 100% on Lufthansa website (regression from 2007)
[12:15pm] ardissone: don't try to book with Lufthansa and Camino
[12:16pm] ardissone: ss: can you look at the regression range bugs and see who we might need to cc to look at that?
[12:16pm] ardissone: and Bug 475102 - Can't switch tabs with the keyboard on (regression from keyhell)
[12:16pm] ss: Heh
[12:16pm] ss: Key hell bugs are likely smichaud and/or josh.
[12:16pm] ardissone: no, i mean lufthansa
[12:17pm] ss: Oh, sure
[12:17pm] ardissone: i know who's responsible for keyhell 
[12:17pm] ss: $DEITY help us
[12:17pm] ardissone: the only good news out of Gecko is that smichaud's patch fixes both the 10.5 crash-on-quit and the 10.4-autorelease leak
[12:18pm] ardissone: of course it will probably be march before it lands on 1.9.0 
[12:19pm] ss: With antiphishing...
[12:19pm] ss: We have permission to use Google-only lists
[12:19pm] ss: So I've asked murph to update his patch so we can get it checked in soon.
[12:20pm] smorgan: w00t!
[12:20pm] ss: I'm still working with Google on the details, but we should be able to get it in in the next week or two.
[12:20pm] murph: yeah, I'm refreshing the patch right now.  Very exciting to hear 
[12:20pm] ss: (And we have to switch to v2.2 of the protocol, which should be pretty easy.)
[12:20pm] ardissone: sam's been working really hard on this for the past few months
[12:21pm] murph: Yeah, switching to 2.2, from 2.0, is mostly just changing the URLs in prefs from what I see so far
[12:21pm] ss: I'd prefer to land it asap and work on the smaller details later because I think there'll be some follow-ups from it.
[12:21pm] ardissone: yeah, we need more UI
[12:21pm] ss: And we want any string changes in before b2
[12:21pm] ss: Yeah
[12:21pm] ss: So heads up that that's coming.
[12:21pm] murph: I'll do my best to have this in maybe even today, or tomorrow.
[12:22pm] ss: Thanks murph 
[12:22pm] ardissone: thanks ss 
[12:22pm] murph: oh no prob, thank you for making this happen!
[12:22pm] ss: If there are any changes of significance, send it back through sr to smorgan, I htink.
[12:22pm] ss: think*
[12:22pm] ss: If it's just small changes, it's probably good, but you're the best judge of that.
[12:23pm] murph: ok, will do.
[12:23pm] ardissone: murph also has a patch for the 10.4 dragging bug now
[12:24pm] murph: yeah, that was bad, it didn't work at all on Tiger  
[12:25pm] ardissone: i think that means that feature will be back in shippable state, which is good
[12:25pm] ardissone: because, uh, tabsposé isn't quite done
[12:25pm] jeff: runs
[12:25pm] jeff: yea so I gotta get on that ...
[12:26pm] ss: And soon!
[12:26pm] ss:
[12:26pm] ardissone: jeff keeps mentioning patches, then disappearing 
[12:26pm] ardissone: he's a terrible tease
[12:26pm] jeff: murph owes me a tutorial to get my local tree cleaned up
[12:26pm] jeff: the Osbourne 2 is gonna be awesome!
[12:27pm] ardissone: we need to fix the focus loss, and probably the inaccessibility from the keyboard
[12:27pm] ardissone: and then whatever bling jeff can work up, like the fading
[12:28pm] jeff: yea thats a quick fix from murph's review
[12:28pm] jeff: and the focus stuff I will look into
[12:28pm] jeff: and then there is the NSControl magic
[12:28pm] ardissone: mhm
[12:28pm] jeff: so basically I better shape up and fast
[12:28pm] ardissone: which will help with the keyboard
[12:28pm] ardissone: indeed 
[12:29pm] jeff: on another note, I converted 2 people to Camino
[12:29pm] ardissone:
[12:29pm] jeff: this week*
[12:29pm] ardissone:  
[12:29pm] ardissone: so you'd better make it rock for them l;)
[12:30pm] jeff: how many horses has murph converted over?
[12:30pm] jeff: leaves the floor for murph
[12:30pm] ardissone: ilya: what's next for you?
[12:30pm] murph: haha, well at least I didn't need to mention converts to score back some meeting points for my patches  !
[12:31pm] ardissone: (growl landed, in case you missed it)
[12:31pm] ilya: mmm, downloads stuff I guess
[12:31pm] ilya: currently, catching up on school work 
[12:31pm] ardissone:
[12:31pm] jeff: I'll use that excuse too
[12:31pm] jeff:
[12:32pm] ardissone: mento / smorgan: is that Ts hit expected from shared builds?
[12:32pm] smorgan: has no idea
[12:32pm] ardissone: we had a 10% Ts hit on boxset with the landing
[12:33pm] ardissone: boxset also had a hit with Sparkle
[12:33pm] smorgan: If it's only shared I'm not really worried
[12:33pm] ardissone: yeah
[12:33pm] ardissone: binus even had a Ts win 
[12:33pm] pinkerton joined the chat room.
[12:33pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:33pm] pinkerton: still going?
[12:33pm] ardissone: there's pink
[12:33pm] pinkerton: sorry was on a call
[12:33pm] ardissone: yep
[12:34pm] ardissone: np
[12:34pm] ardissone: we're discussing the Growl Ts hit on shared
[12:34pm] ardissone:
[12:34pm] pinkerton: ah
[12:34pm] ardissone: somewhere down in there
[12:34pm] ardissone: is a Ts hit expected from adding a framework in a shared build?
[12:35pm] pinkerton: i wouldn't imagine so
[12:35pm] pinkerton: what is growl doing at init time?
[12:35pm] ardissone: ilya: ^^^
[12:35pm] ilya: umm, not a whole lot
[12:35pm] mento: i don't know about the ts hit.  what landing caused it?
[12:36pm] ardissone: Growl
[12:36pm] mento: oh, you said it below
[12:36pm] mento: yes
[12:36pm] ardissone:
[12:36pm] ilya: a GrowlController is inited, which tries to register with Growl
[12:36pm] mento: yes, that's entirely plausible
[12:36pm] ilya: this is basically a no-op if Growl is not there
[12:36pm] ilya: s / there / installed
[12:37pm] ardissone: (we had a similar, but not as severe, hit on boxset with Sparkle)
[12:37pm] pinkerton: is growl on the tboxes?
[12:37pm] ardissone: no
[12:37pm] pinkerton: so it should be a no-op
[12:37pm] mento: i think that the problem is that dyld's workload is just plain heavier with the shared build
[12:37pm] mento: it's not really a growl or sparkle or framework problem
[12:37pm] mento: it's a huge symbol table to resolve problem that has just gotten huger
[12:38pm] pinkerton: k. so no impact on static builds?
[12:38pm] ardissone: (cb-miniosx is also shared, but runs no tests, so we can't correlate)
[12:38pm] pinkerton: (which is what we really care about)
[12:38pm] mento: i would expect impact but much less severe
[12:38pm] ardissone: Ts win on the one mini, no change on the Xserve
[12:38pm] mento: fantastic
[12:39pm] ardissone: ok, then I'll close that bug and the sparkle one as dyld's fault 
[12:39pm] pinkerton: ship it 
[12:39pm] ardissone: speaking of which
[12:39pm] ardissone: smorgan: any news on the breakpad front?
[12:39pm] smorgan: No; I was sick most of the last week
[12:40pm] ardissone: hopes you're feeling better
[12:40pm] mento: you guys should just do what i do and do the linking/loading step in your heads.  no more pesky os to get in the way.
[12:40pm] ardissone: haha
[12:40pm] ardissone: philippe's got new icon variants for us for zoom
[12:41pm] ardissone:
[12:41pm] ardissone: 10.5:
[12:41pm] ardissone: 10.4:
[12:41pm] ardissone: I like A3 the best, I think
[12:42pm] ardissone: the Cs look like they're adding a new blue color, which makes people yell at us
[12:42pm] ss: We should do this in two steps: Pick a color, then pick a style.
[12:42pm] ardissone: the green just looks unattractive
[12:43pm] pinkerton: F is kinda cool
[12:43pm] hendy: yeah, i like F
[12:43pm] pinkerton: for some reason when i look at the As i see a white checkerboard, rather than the arrows
[12:43pm] smorgan: We could do F with blue
[12:43pm] smorgan: er, blue-matching
[12:44pm] smorgan: (stupid - key)
[12:44pm] ardissone: ok
[12:44pm] ardissone: any other thoughts?
[12:44pm] ilya: in F, the negative-space arrows seem really prominent to me
[12:44pm] smorgan: If we go A, I would say 5 or 3
[12:45pm] smorgan: I'm also against green
[12:45pm] smorgan: C3 with a slightly different blue would also work
[12:46pm] ardissone: i don't notice the negative-space much in these compared to previous revisions
[12:46pm] hendy: C3 has even more prominent neg-space arrows for me
[12:47pm] pinkerton: yeah, the neg space in Cs is more prominant than the F for me
[12:47pm] hendy: F is the only one where it doesn't pop right out
[12:47pm] ardissone: ok...we like them all, except Green 
[12:47pm] hendy: maybe a first-run dialog where the user can choose his favourite?
[12:48pm] pinkerton: my vote is F
[12:48pm] ardissone: roll call! 
[12:49pm] ardissone: do we prefer blue, or grey?
[12:50pm] ss: I'm okay with the F style, but I want to see maybe one or two variations of color.
[12:50pm] ss: And yeah, feels like we're adding a new color to our palette.
[12:50pm] ss: (Man, we're anal!)
[12:50pm] hendy: i'd go for a blue like the reload button
[12:50pm] hendy: ss: perfectionists
[12:50pm] pinkerton: it already looks close to that
[12:50pm] ss: It's close, but a little off.
[12:50pm] ardissone: yeah, the blue'd have to match reload a little better
[12:51pm] ardissone: moving on
[12:51pm] ardissone: hendy: UTF-8 news and such?
[12:52pm] hendy: nearly there; the user-exposed urls are all nearly cleaned up
[12:52pm] ardissone: bookmarks manager is really all that's left, right?
[12:53pm] hendy: i still need to tackle the pasteboard stuff, and make sure both url types are in there somewhere
[12:53pm] hendy: bookmarks and history, yes
[12:53pm] ardissone: OK
[12:54pm] ilya_ joined the chat room.
[12:54pm] ilya_ was promoted to operator by you.
[12:54pm] ilya_: brb
[12:54pm] ardissone: heh
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[12:55pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 2.0?
[12:55pm] ardissone: hopefully the post-Christmas lull is starting to break
[12:56pm] ilya left the chat room. (Ping timeout)
[12:56pm] ss: I wanted to mention one more thing before we break
[12:57pm] ss: I've been digging into our update stats a bit and I'm going to break them down more.
[12:57pm] ss: I'll send a spreadsheet to anyone who wants
[12:57pm] ss: But it looks like we're getting ~85k daily pings on a good day
[12:57pm] smorgan: I'd be interested in the data
[12:57pm] ss: (With a 3x multiplier, puts us at ~250k monthlies)
[12:58pm] ss: I can send you whatever you'd like, but the raw data is hefty
[12:58pm] pinkerton: kwl
[12:58pm] smorgan: broken down is fine
[12:58pm] ss: Right now I'm breaking it down in some basic ways (by version, by platform)
[12:58pm] ss: But I'm not doing the more detailed stuff (1.6.6 by platform, for example)
[12:59pm] ss: smorgan: I'll send you a spreadsheet later this week and you can let me know if you want other data. :)
[12:59pm] smorgan: thanks
[12:59pm] ss: Anyway, this is up from April/May when we were at 35k pings
[12:59pm] ss: Thought it was an interesting stat. :)
[1:00pm] ss: That's all I had. :)
[1:00pm] ardissone: anyone else have anything else today?
[1:02pm] ardissone: ok then
[1:02pm] ardissone: everyone have a good week, and keep hacking those bugs and the r queue :)
[1:02pm] pinkerton: l8r all
[1:02pm] pinkerton left the chat room.