Status Meetings:2009-06-03:Log

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[02:52am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv.
[02:52am] You changed the topic to "".
[02:52am] cl|zzz was promoted to operator by you.
[05:22am] cl|zzz is now known as cl.
[05:25am] cl left the chat room. (Quit: back to work, again)
[12:02pm] dan joined the chat room.
[12:06pm] You are now known as ardissone|foraging.
[12:06pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you.
[12:06pm] dan was promoted to operator by you.
[12:09pm] pinkerton joined the chat room.
[12:09pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:11pm] ardissone|foraging: well, this should be an interesting meeting 
[12:12pm] ardissone|foraging: is glad to see he's not the only one running late today 
[12:16pm] ardissone|foraging: ok, let's begin?
[12:16pm] ardissone|foraging: everyone please open your 2.0b3rc to 
[12:16pm] smorgan: haha
[12:17pm] smorgan: enjoys the Talkback editorializing 
[12:17pm] ardissone|foraging:
[12:17pm] ardissone|foraging: as for b2, the only interesting thing is the fact there were no crahses with swizzling or crashes in Flash player this week 
[12:18pm] ardissone|foraging: though the Flash-Exposé crash was probably there
[12:18pm] ardissone|foraging: very excited this is the last time I'll have to do Talkback for ongoing code
[12:18pm] ardissone|foraging: 2.0b3
[12:19pm] ardissone|foraging: Zarro boogs, built the RC last night
[12:19pm] ardissone|foraging: all that's left is website, staging, and signing
[12:19pm] ardissone|foraging: plan to release sometime Thurs
[12:20pm] ardissone|foraging: big thanks to pink, smorgan, and cl and ilya for getting all the last bugs done on monday
[12:20pm] pinkerton: yay!
[12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: (i believe this means we'll have only shipped one milestone with Growl but without the ability to suppress the dl window)
[12:21pm] ardissone|foraging: looking forward to the absence of that complaint 
[12:22pm] ardissone|foraging: 1.6.7 was almost 50% crashier than usual this week
[12:22pm] ardissone|foraging: possibly the 10.5.7 NSURLConnection crash, though a quick spot-check didn't turn up any
[12:23pm] ardissone|foraging: so dunno
[12:23pm] ardissone|foraging: but in 2 weeks or so, we'll be releasing 1.6.8 and can start anew
[12:24pm] smorgan: Do we need to backport breakpad? 
[12:24pm] ardissone|foraging: everything's landed for 1.6.8 except for part of the null-check patch; cl might get a chance to port the other part
[12:24pm] ardissone|foraging: heh
[12:24pm] ardissone|foraging: don't tempt me
[12:25pm] ardissone|foraging: (l10n would be unhappy, though  and it probably doesn't run on 10.3)
[12:26pm] ardissone|foraging: my goal is to get relnotes to l10n this week
[12:26pm] ardissone|foraging: also, we have a Simplified Chinese translation again
[12:26pm] ardissone|foraging: looks like the guy's starting the process of getting it reviewed
[12:27pm] ardissone|foraging: dunno if it'll make 1.6.8 or not
[12:27pm] ardissone|foraging: i can't remember if we last had chinese in 1.0 or 0.8
[12:28pm] ardissone|foraging: anyone have anything else on 1.6.x or b2/b3?
[12:30pm] ardissone|foraging: ok
[12:30pm] ardissone|foraging: SoC
[12:30pm] ardissone|foraging: that's dan!
[12:31pm] dan: yup!
[12:31pm] dan: my proposal is finally up at
[12:31pm] ardissone|foraging: saw that last night when i was on agenda 
[12:32pm] dan: so font sizes.......
[12:33pm] ardissone|foraging: i haven't had a chance to try the latest patches
[12:33pm] ardissone|foraging: the new screenshot looks better, i think
[12:34pm] dan: In the screenshot on the wiki page there are two font sizes for the title and url (I basically copied safari 4). Yay or nay?
[12:34pm] smorgan: It makes me sad, but I can be overruled 
[12:35pm] smorgan: It would be interesting to get some side-by-side images with the same results
[12:35pm] smorgan: To get a feel for how much context we gain/lose
[12:35pm] dan: okay, maybe I'll mock up a few different styles and put them all side by side
[12:35pm] ardissone|foraging: mhm
[12:35pm] ardissone|foraging: sounds good
[12:36pm] dan: Someone even requested a firefox-like 2 line per item list
[12:36pm] dan: : (
[12:36pm] smorgan: We probably need to cut a branch after b3 and 1.6.8 are out the door
[12:36pm] ardissone|foraging: besides cl? 
[12:36pm] smorgan: Yeah, I don't think we want to go to two lines, so I wouldn't worry about that
[12:36pm] dan: 
[12:36pm] smorgan: I find Firefox's list really hard to skim
[12:37pm] dan: yes....
[12:37pm] ardissone|foraging: it's too busy
[12:37pm] dan: yes....
[12:37pm] ardissone|foraging: ours is about as busy as can be usable
[12:37pm] smorgan: And we are about clean and simple interface 
[12:37pm] ardissone|foraging: and i think taking out the scrollbars really helps
[12:37pm] ardissone|foraging: (though I didn't initially like that idea)
[12:38pm] smorgan: The more I think about it, the less I can remember actually scrolling
[12:38pm] smorgan: I'm pretty sure I just type more
[12:38pm] ardissone|foraging: i scroll some every day
[12:39pm] smorgan: Would title searchability fix that?
[12:39pm] ardissone|foraging: when i'm looking for something on a heavily-visited site with lots of pages
[12:39pm] dan: What about the menu-like scroll arrows I tried to implement earlier?
[12:39pm] dan: It was messy, but could be improved
[12:39pm] ardissone|foraging: possibly? maybe arbitrary-point matches?
[12:40pm] smorgan: dan: I think it's a good solution if we need scrollability
[12:40pm] smorgan: I just know that I'm coming around to the idea that maybe we can get rid of it 
[12:40pm] dan: ok. cool
[12:41pm] smorgan: At some point, if you can't find it quickly, that UI is proabably not great
[12:41pm] ardissone|foraging: not so sure yet, but open minded to developments 
[12:41pm] smorgan: (not your UI specifically, just the tiny size)
[12:41pm] smorgan: So maybe we need a final item that jumps to a pre-filled search in the bookmark/history manager, for example
[12:41pm] smorgan: a la history menu recent items
[12:42pm] pinkerton: i'd be find getting rid of the scrollbar
[12:42pm] pinkerton: er fine
[12:42pm] ardissone|foraging: pinkerton: good thing, since it's already gone 
[12:42pm] pinkerton: ha
[12:42pm] ardissone|foraging: dan: anything else specific right now?
[12:43pm] You are now known as ardissone.
[12:43pm] smorgan: Anyway, I think it would be good to try having no scrolling for a while, and try to think about what we find ourselves actually unable to do
[12:43pm] smorgan: So we can brainstorm other solutions
[12:44pm] dan: ok, I've got nothing else now. Except in my latest top secret experimental patches bookmark searching works 
[12:44pm] ardissone:
[12:44pm] smorgan: Did you test with the file of death yet? 
[12:44pm] dan: not yet  
[12:44pm] dan: scared to....
[12:44pm] smorgan: heh
[12:45pm] ardissone: so, i think we want everyone to look over the proposal in the next week and then we can discuss any general direction issues and whatnot
[12:45pm] ardissone: week after next?
[12:45pm] dan: ok
[12:46pm] ardissone: we want to get a post on the Camino Blog, and get your blog on caminoplanet, too
[12:46pm] ardissone: have you connected with jeff?
[12:47pm] jeff joined the chat room.
[12:47pm] jeff was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:47pm] dan: sorta. I talked to him last week and he was going to set it up...but haven't talked to him since
[12:47pm] ardissone: speaking of the devil, or something
[12:47pm] jeff: sorry I'm late
[12:47pm] ardissone: ok
[12:47pm] ardissone: jeff: at least you made it 
[12:48pm] ardissone: so
[12:48pm] ardissone: WWDC
[12:48pm] ardissone: pinkerton has delegated the gathering activity scheduling and whatnot to ss?
[12:49pm] ardissone: also, are we going to have a regular meeting next week?
[12:49pm] pinkerton: i haven't heard anything from anyone wwdc
[12:49pm] ardissone: typically we haven't since we had the meetup and lots of people were at wwdc
[12:49pm] pinkerton: you can have it w/out me 
[12:49pm] smorgan: I'll be around
[12:50pm] ardissone: so pink and a one or two people will be at WWDC, and we'll meet without them
[12:50pm] jeff: close your eyes and just imagine me folding my arms and looking grumpy
[12:50pm] pinkerton:
[12:50pm] ardissone: ?
[12:51pm] ardissone: going to run through the other 2.0 stuff
[12:51pm] jeff: anyway, do you want my updates?
[12:51pm] bittin` joined the chat room.
[12:51pm] ardissone: Sparkle and Breakpad might be incompatible with the GPL due to use of OpenSSL headers 
[12:51pm] ardissone: still awaiting more from Gerv on that
[12:52pm] ardissone: since jeff is so eager to update us, let's move him right up to now
[12:52pm] jeff: so I think I finshed my QuickLook patch, I know, not a P1 ... but its there
[12:53pm] jeff: so if there are no problems I'll get someone to review it
[12:53pm] jeff: I also am getting close to finishing up the whole mouse/keyboard tracking in Tabspose
[12:53pm] jeff: by moving to NSControl and using custom cells and whatnot
[12:53pm] ardissone: if i get done with website early enough tonight, i'll apply that patch
[12:53pm] ardissone:
[12:54pm] ardissone: sounds like you're back on the rails for b4 
[12:54pm] jeff: and I also moved my to 2007. and now the main page has a splash page until we get Dan's setup going
[12:54pm] smorgan: That patch makes me cry a little, but it would be nice to have the functionality 
[12:55pm] ardissone: haha
[12:55pm] jeff: smorgan: not a fan of private headers?
[12:55pm] jeff: or my code just *that* bad?
[12:55pm] ardissone: "every other modern browser has it now" 
[12:56pm] ardissone: (and some ftp clients   )
[12:56pm] smorgan: Loading a whole private framework is more than our usual level of hackery 
[12:57pm] jeff: hopes he gets his hacker badge
[12:57pm] ardissone: ok, anti-phishing had some more small steps land last week
[12:57pm] jeff: or just 'hack' nametag
[12:57pm] ardissone: it's now front-and-center with Tabsposé
[12:58pm] ardissone: josh had a patch he thought fixed the Cocoa key events blackhole
[12:58pm] ardissone: smorgan: promising?
[12:58pm] smorgan: I haven't had time to test yet
[12:58pm] ardissone: k
[12:58pm] smorgan: Busier than I thought the last couple days
[12:58pm] ardissone: heh
[12:58pm] ardissone: another security UI polish landed
[12:59pm] ardissone: on tab dragging, we need to follow up with the 10.4 people
[12:59pm] ardissone: once b3 is out
[12:59pm] ardissone: breakpad
[12:59pm] ardissone: we shipped it!
[12:59pm] ardissone: already fixed our first 2,0b3pre crash it identified
[1:00pm] ardissone: and hopefully fixed a 1.6.x crash, too
[1:00pm] ardissone: (NSURLCrash)
[1:00pm] ardissone: er, Connection :P
[1:00pm] smorgan: No, you were right the first time ;)
[1:00pm] ardissone: by changing some config on the update feed
[1:01pm] ardissone: hendy said he had a new way forward on the utf-8 stuff
[1:01pm] ardissone: flashblock cm landed
[1:01pm] ardissone: *and* fixed boxset :P
[1:01pm] ardissone: still want to get Tp running on minus-perf before switching it back to regular minus
[1:02pm] ardissone: anything else from anyone?
[1:04pm] ardissone: ok then; everyone have a good week, try out b3, and work on those b4 bugs and patches :)
[1:05pm] ardissone: (also, good work on 0 patches in the sr queue ;) )
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