Status Meetings:2009-06-10:Log

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[11:55am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv.
[11:55am] cl|zzz was promoted to operator by you.
[11:55am] You changed the topic to "".
[11:59am] peeja joined the chat room.
[11:59am] peeja was promoted to operator by you.
[11:59am] kreeger joined the chat room.
[11:59am] kreeger was promoted to operator by you.
[12:03pm] smorgan joined the chat room.
[12:03pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you.
[12:05pm] ardissone: ok, i think this is probably it for today
[12:05pm] ardissone: dan's been in and out, so keep your ears on for him to reappear in #camino
[12:06pm] ardissone: everyone please open in your 2.0b3 or newer
[12:07pm] ardissone: sorry, was fighting the end of the peanut butter
[12:08pm] ardissone: big news is of course 2.0b3 was released a week ago tomorrow
[12:08pm] cl|zzz: heh
[12:08pm] cl|zzz is now known as cl.
[12:09pm] ardissone: breakpad's pseudo-topcrash report shows us the crashes
[12:09pm] ardissone: top crash is objc_msgSend, which started getting broken up very late last night
[12:09pm] ardissone: so we'll have more useful split-up signatures going forward
[12:10pm] ardissone: right now it consists of this unknown crash
[12:10pm] ardissone: the Flash fullscreen+Exposé
[12:10pm] ardissone: and a 1password crashg
[12:11pm] ardissone: 1p released an update yesterday that disables themselves for all Camino 2-anything builds
[12:11pm] ardissone: so that should help that
[12:11pm] ardissone: hopefully not too many users will hack the plist to allow 1p to crash them again
[12:11pm] ardissone:
[12:12pm] smorgan: I'm not sure how they autoupdate, if at all, so I don't know what the saturation of the new version will be
[12:12pm] ardissone: I think they at least have notifications, but I'm not sure
[12:13pm] ardissone: We have a dozen different Flash Player stacks, plus the CF*-Flash-on-thread-20 crashes
[12:13pm] ardissone: which makes Flash in aggregate #2
[12:14pm] ardissone: #3 is something in Gecko, I think
[12:14pm] peeja left the chat room. (Quit: peeja)
[12:14pm] ardissone: last before a big dropoff is Bug 496582
[12:15pm] ardissone: caused by Gecko making bad assumptions about how OS methods they swizzle really behave 
[12:15pm] ardissone: there's a patch, so hopefully by b4 it will be gone
[12:15pm] peeja joined the chat room.
[12:16pm] ardissone: we had ~165 crashes in the last almost-week
[12:16pm] peeja was promoted to operator by you.
[12:16pm] ardissone: which is about 4x what we were seeing from PPC-only talkback
[12:16pm] ardissone: which seems about right
[12:17pm] ardissone: anyone have anyghting else on b3?
[12:19pm] smorgan: is guessing not 
[12:20pm] ardissone: ok
[12:20pm] ardissone: yay 
[12:20pm] ardissone: 1.6.7
[12:20pm] ardissone: the main thing to report here, besides 1.6.8 replacing it next week
[12:21pm] ardissone: is that last week's spike in # of crashes went down
[12:21pm] smorgan: internets: 1, networking regression: 0 
[12:21pm] ardissone: back to about normal
[12:21pm] ardissone: yup
[12:22pm] ardissone: the other 1.6.x news
[12:22pm] ardissone: looks likely that we will be adding zh-Hant in 1.6.8
[12:22pm] ardissone: last in Camino 0.8.x
[12:23pm] ardissone: er, zh-Hans
[12:23pm] ardissone:
[12:23pm] ardissone: the translator seems really excited about making Camino in SimpChinese
[12:24pm] ardissone: dan hasn't popped back in yet
[12:25pm] ardissone: he's been working on autocompleting from bookmarks over the last week
[12:25pm] ardissone: i believe
[12:25pm] ardissone: it sounds like he and jeff are at least playing tag about the website
[12:25pm] ardissone: so hopefully that'll be up soon
[12:26pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:26pm] ardissone: and when I get some time, I'll get a blog post up on cbo
[12:26pm] ardissone: rememeber we're going to discuss the proposal next week, so be sure to read it before then:
[12:27pm] ardissone: On to other 2.0 stuff
[12:27pm] ardissone: resolution on the Breakpad/Sparkle incompatible with GPL bit seems to be moving forward
[12:28pm] smorgan: Before we get into 2.0 details, I have a proposal
[12:28pm] ardissone: k
[12:28pm] smorgan: It's not well-thought-out, but I want to suggest it so you can tell me why it's stupid 
[12:29pm] smorgan: Call 2.0b3 the l10n freeze, and ship 2.0 once the localizations are ready
[12:29pm] smorgan: Push safe browsing to a rapid 2.1
[12:29pm] smorgan: (I know we always say rapid and then don't do it, but we really could if we tried)
[12:29pm] ardissone: make it more like 2.0.1?
[12:30pm] smorgan: I feel like Gecko has finally stabilized for us enough that there's no reason someone who could run 2.0b3 should be using 1.6.7 instead of it
[12:30pm] smorgan: So that feels like we should ship, rather that delay an unknown amount of time for the safe-browsing UI
[12:30pm] smorgan: If it gets done on the new trunk in parallel, the 2.1 can be really, really fast, but if not we don't keep spinning
[12:31pm] smorgan: Yes there are a couple of minor regressions, but not many, and I can't think of any that are as important as all the things that work better
[12:32pm] ardissone: the other option is to declare 2.0b3 a "stable build" like we did before
[12:32pm] ardissone: for 1.0b2 or whatever
[12:33pm] smorgan: We wouldn't autoupdate people to it though, I assume
[12:33pm] ardissone: of the other 2.0 stuff, do we fix zoom and utf-8?
[12:33pm] ardissone: i suppose not
[12:33pm] smorgan: What does "fixing" zoom mean?
[12:34pm] smorgan: It's no worse than it was
[12:34pm] ardissone: though I hadn't given it much thought
[12:34pm] ardissone: the increment that everyone's complaining about
[12:34pm] smorgan: I forget if we have UTF-8 regressions
[12:34pm] smorgan: The increment can be fixed while we wait for l10n
[12:34pm] ardissone: yeah, we break some drags or copy/paste
[12:35pm] ardissone: what about the nasty CJK pref pane?
[12:35pm] ardissone: that's a regression from 1.6, and needs l10n
[12:36pm] smorgan: ardissone: I can never keep track of that bug  What's the regression from 1.6?
[12:36pm] ardissone: you can't select CJK fonts, because the Gecko API changed
[12:36pm] ardissone: we fixed the Advanced sheet in 1.5 for the old Carbon font code
[12:37pm] smorgan: Okay, then maybe we fix that and bless a random later build for l10n
[12:37pm] ardissone: but we have new font code that doesn't work with plain Cocoa (the main widnwo) nor with our Carbon work-arind
[12:38pm] smorgan: I just feel like our rapid 2.0 progress has ground to a crawl, and we should be getting all the improvements out sooner rather than waiting for everything to be in
[12:39pm] smorgan: And most of what's left we can just cut off right now with no ill effects
[12:39pm] ardissone: i don't disagree with that
[12:39pm] ardissone: i don't know how fast l10n can be ready
[12:39pm] smorgan: Can they do everything but the appearance pane now?
[12:39pm] ardissone: i know a couple of people have started
[12:40pm] ardissone: but the Gecko strings add a lot 
[12:40pm] ardissone: and it is holidays season
[12:40pm] ardissone: so we might be looking at a month or we might be looking at 2 months
[12:40pm] smorgan: Ouch
[12:41pm] smorgan: Maybe we should consider not simul-shipping 2.0 l10n?
[12:41pm] ardissone: we can try to survey them and see where they are for next week
[12:41pm] ardissone: l10n will really hate us if we do that
[12:43pm] smorgan: (to be clear, I'm suggesting English followed later by a big l10n package, not trickling out languages)
[12:43pm] ardissone: i think that's worse than shopping who's done
[12:44pm] ardissone: assuming we have Spanish, French, and German ready at release
[12:44pm] ardissone: Anyway, I think we need to investigate and come back next week
[12:45pm] jeff joined the chat room.
[12:45pm] jeff was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:45pm] smorgan: okay. Now back to your regularly scheduled meeting 
[12:45pm] ardissone: jeff: how's Tabsposé?
[12:46pm] ardissone: we're shipping next week, so it needs to be done yesterday
[12:46pm] jeff: okay, trying to finish up a patch while at wwdc
[12:46pm] jeff: haha
[12:46pm] jeff: gets in time machine
[12:46pm] ardissone: "cannot restore last known jeff"
[12:47pm] ardissone: ok
[12:47pm] ardissone: that's good
[12:47pm] ardissone: because we may in fact be shipping sooner than later
[12:48pm] ardissone: smorgan: any updates on Esc, or just on pinch?
[12:48pm] smorgan: Just pinch, no esc yet
[12:49pm] ardissone: i poked that 10.4 dragging bug last night (for the second time); if we don't hear soon, we should assume we've fixed it
[12:50pm] ardissone: hendy said he was working on the zoom menu stuff; last real detalied info I knew there were issues with alternates if you changed the shortcut in sysprefs, which I don' think is a showstopper
[12:50pm] ardissone: (just set the alternates in sysprefs, too)
[12:51pm] ardissone: after that, he was going to work on the zoom increment
[12:51pm] ardissone: and he has a new patch on the utf-8 bug blocking the rest of the work
[12:51pm] ardissone: awaiting smorgan, i think
[12:51pm] smorgan: It's on my radar
[12:51pm] ardissone: !clone smorgan
[12:52pm] ardissone: cl: any updates from you?
[12:54pm] ardissone: anyone else have anything on the 2.0?
[12:55pm] ardissone: ok
[12:56pm] ardissone: branching info is at
[12:56pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else about anything else?
[12:58pm] ardissone: ok then
[12:58pm] ardissone: remember to read dan's proposal and work on those 2.0 bugs and reviews
[12:58pm] ardissone: and have a good week