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[11:56am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv. [11:56am] You changed the topic to "http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2009-07-22:Agenda". [11:56am] dan was promoted to operator by you. [11:56am] kreeger was promoted to operator by you. [12:02pm] hendy joined the chat room. [12:02pm] hendy was promoted to operator by you. [12:03pm] murph joined the chat room. [12:03pm] pinkerton joined the chat room. [12:03pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by chanserv. [12:03pm] murph was promoted to operator by you. [12:03pm] ardissone: we'll give smorgan a few [12:09pm] smorgan joined the chat room. [12:09pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by you. [12:09pm] ardissone: ok [12:09pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by chanserv. [12:10pm] smorgan: Sorry I'm late [12:10pm] ardissone: everyone open your 2.0b3 or newer to http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2009-07-22:Agenda [12:10pm] ardissone: smorgan: pinkerton just wanted to make you look bad to cover for the sr queue [12:11pm] ardissone: on the b3 front [12:11pm] pinkerton: k. really really busy [12:11pm] ardissone: [12:11pm] ardissone: there's nothing new in the crashes, really [12:12pm] ardissone: bp-bae34d3f-748c-463e-98d6-c9eca2090714 possibly a new variant in the _objc_error crash [12:12pm] ardissone: fewer crashes last week, but the crashes are becoming more and more varied [12:12pm] ardissone: so go figure [12:13pm] ardissone: (random flash crashes are down to only 20% of b3 crashes ) [12:13pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on b3? [12:14pm] ardissone: ok [12:15pm] ardissone: the b4 update is that we've made some movement, but it doesn't look like we'll be ready to freeze next week [12:16pm] ardissone: 1.6.x [12:16pm] ardissone: the topcrashes for 1.6.8 haven't changed yet again [12:17pm] ardissone: although Flash Player is just 27% of the crashes now [12:17pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 1.6.x? [12:18pm] ardissone: anyone else as tired of hearing about 1.6.x (Gecko 1.8.1) bugs as me? [12:18pm] smorgan: Oooh ooh, me me [12:18pm] ardissone: [12:19pm] ardissone: most of the bugs we're getting reported by users are Gecko 1.8.1-only bugs [12:20pm] ardissone: which, as you all know, is awesome technology…for 2006 [12:20pm] ardissone: now on to awesome technology for 2009! [12:21pm] ardissone: dan: SoC update! [12:21pm] dan: well, there are a lot of new complains. I have about 13 bugs assigned to me [12:22pm] smorgan: Many of them aren't complaints, just opportunities for more improvement [12:22pm] pinkerton: bbiab food [12:22pm] ardissone: (a bunch of those are follow-ups identified in the the first reviews, not complaints ) [12:22pm] ardissone: but yes, you accounted for most of the new bugs the past week [12:23pm] dan: Right now I'm focusing on the one that bugs me the most--redirected URLs [12:23pm] dan: those stupid pseudo protocols is my last priority [12:23pm] ardissone: hehe [12:24pm] ardissone: yeah, redirects is the most jarring thing, i think [12:24pm] dan: I am making good progress on that. [12:24pm] ardissone: [12:24pm] dan: But I was hoping to get a minute to get some feedback on my new sort algorithm [12:25pm] ardissone: k [12:25pm] dan: It's basically (visit count) * (last visit) + pathBoost + typedBoost [12:26pm] dan: Where last visit is assigned a score based on how recent it was [12:26pm] smorgan: I would say visit count >> last visit [12:26pm] smorgan: What's pathBoost? [12:27pm] dan: pathBoost is a boost given to URLs that end in "/" [12:27pm] dan: typedBoost is a boost given to URLs that were typed, obviously [12:27pm] smorgan: What's the rationale for pathBoost? [12:27pm] dan: Well, it was part of the old autocomplete sort [12:28pm] dan: It gives www.mozilla.com priority over www.mozilla.com/help [12:28pm] ardissone: preferring site main pages to some random page on site [12:28pm] dan: yes [12:28pm] dan: that wasn't a good example [12:28pm] ardissone: no, it wasn't [12:28pm] ardissone: since help/ will have one [12:28pm] dan: it's a matter of web paths vs. web pages [12:28pm] smorgan: I'm just not clear on why paths are magic [12:29pm] dan: so mozilla.com/ will get priority over mozilla.com/help.html [12:29pm] dan: the idea in the old bug was that the main page is going to be more important than some random page [12:29pm] smorgan: But it could just as easily be mozilla.com/help/ [12:29pm] ardissone: i think it gives a better "look-and-feel" to a list; i don't know whether it's useful [12:30pm] smorgan: If that's the goal, then it seems like "no path" or "shorter" would be a better indicator [12:30pm] dan: it does make it look better. And it only gives a slight boost so that if there are a bunch of pages from one domain, the top-level one shows up first [12:30pm] ardissone: it means my hits for ardisson.org would be www.ardisson.org www.ardisson.org/afkar/ and then www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/perf.html?size=50&days=2&avg=1&autoscale=1 instead of the latter being first [12:31pm] ardissone: that also probably makes arrowing down and typing more easier [12:32pm] dan: Anyway, it's nothing I would have thought of, but it was included in the previous autocomplete sort [12:32pm] ardissone: e.g., i can left-arrow to add more to that path [12:32pm] ardissone: which i think is more important now that we only have 5 results [12:33pm] smorgan: Probably the only way to really know is to try and see how it works with real data [12:33pm] ardissone: (vs left-arrow and a lot of backspacing) [12:33pm] smorgan: (the whole algorithm, not just this part) [12:33pm] dan: well, I almost have a patch for it up, so I'll wait for more feedback then [12:34pm] dan: There was a lot of philosophical debate about this back in the day [12:34pm] ardissone: how do titles fit in? [12:34pm] ardissone: we evaluate their urls? [12:35pm] ardissone: or, the urls for things that have matches in their titles? [12:35pm] dan: I'm confused [12:35pm] dan: titles are not taken into account in the sorting [12:36pm] ardissone: ok, that's what i was asking [12:36pm] smorgan: dan: probably one of the best indicators for a good match is having picked the item before for the same querry [12:36pm] dan: hmm, yes, that's true. I will play around with that idea [12:37pm] smorgan: That's probably something to tackle separately from the basic core sort algorithm, but it's a very good way to make it learn the right result [12:37pm] dan: another bug [12:37pm] ardissone: welcome to development [12:37pm] smorgan: Another opportunity for enhancement you mean [12:38pm] dan: well, that's about it then [12:38pm] ardissone: ok [12:39pm] ardissone: please try also to blog about at least the landed stuff before i do my every-two-weeks roundup this weekend [12:40pm] ardissone: also we'll need to keep kicking ss until the feed is up on caminoplanet [12:40pm] dan: yes! Now that the blog is a little more....functional, I will definitely write more! [12:40pm] ardissone: tosses a tomato in jeff;s direction [12:40pm] ardissone: [12:40pm] ardissone: ok [12:40pm] ardissone: 2.0 stuff [12:41pm] ardissone: smorgan: breakpad bugs are dwindling; the big thing left is URLs, I think [12:41pm] ardissone: how about josh's key thingy? [12:42pm] smorgan: ardissone: still haven't done that; started looking at URLs [12:42pm] smorgan: Although it's not entirely clear how to test it [12:43pm] ardissone: heh [12:43pm] ardissone: file bugs against somewhere on the reports [12:43pm] ardissone: which is, uh, silly, but.... [12:44pm] ardissone: unless ss has a better idea, that's what MoCo does to get urls out of reports [12:45pm] ardissone: jeff's still not here; hendy pointed out a tweet that implied he was going to work on his bugs on monday [12:46pm] ardissone: murph: phishing, fonts, other stuff? [12:46pm] murph: for the phishing bar, and your bug about the blocking bar not appearing because the URL expired, I'm working on a slight refactor of the how we remember ignored blocked sites to more cleanly work around that situation [12:48pm] ardissone: ok [12:48pm] cl joined the chat room. [12:48pm] pinkerton: oh, did you folks talk about the email gerv sent to caminofeedback? [12:48pm] ardissone: where is the menuitem bug? [12:48pm] cl: gerv sent something to feedback? [12:48pm] ardissone: pinkerton: what mail? [12:48pm] pinkerton: he was asking for a "state of the union" for oscon and i thought it was nice he asked us for status [12:49pm] cl: is still not subscribed to feedback [12:49pm] cl: ss: you wanna fix that? [12:49pm] ardissone: that was nice [12:49pm] pinkerton: what things should i put on the list? [12:49pm] pinkerton: soc student, about to ship 2.0b4, ...? [12:49pm] ardissone: "camino is still digging out from the weight of having its widget toolkit stolen" [12:50pm] pinkerton: [12:50pm] ardissone: yeah, autocomplete [12:51pm] pinkerton: k, i'll make some other stuff up [12:51pm] ardissone: you can talk about some of the features in 2.0 that have actually landed, like tabsposé [12:52pm] pinkerton: that requires remembering what wasn't in 1.x [12:52pm] ardissone: but not those that depend on the good graces of your employer [12:52pm] pinkerton: i guess the beta site has a list, eh? [12:52pm] ardissone: mhm [12:52pm] ardissone: growl [12:52pm] ardissone: people love growl [12:52pm] pinkerton: how strange [12:53pm] hendy: full content zoom! [12:53pm] smorgan: finds the emai [12:53pm] smorgan: It says 5 minutes for all of Mozilla [12:53pm] smorgan: I think we proabably don't need an exhaustive list [12:53pm] ardissone: heh [12:53pm] ardissone: 4 minutes for MoCo, 1 minute for everything else [12:54pm] ardissone: well, a couple of signature features to-be-in-2.0 sounds reasonable [12:54pm] pinkerton: yeah, i wanted to make sure i gave him something [12:54pm] pinkerton: again because he was kind enough to ask [12:54pm] ardissone: [12:55pm] pinkerton: i'll reply later today [12:55pm] ardissone: cool [12:55pm] ardissone: murph: back to you, where is the menu item patch? [12:55pm] pinkerton: (sorry to interrupt) [12:55pm] murph: oh for reporting you mean? [12:55pm] ardissone: pinkerton: np, that's what project leads do [12:55pm] ardissone: murph: yeah [12:56pm] ardissone: it's not in a queue, and it's the last big piece before turning on... [12:56pm] murph: I'm actually waiting on hendy's patch to get checked in, as I'm going to use the isBlockedOverlayShowing method as part of menu validation... [12:56pm] ardissone: ah, ok [12:56pm] ardissone: and that's in pinkerton's sr queue [12:56pm] murph: but other than that, the patch is ready to go, so it will be in right after his patch gets in [12:57pm] ardissone: sounds good [12:57pm] ardissone: ss: have you chatted with SearchCo lately about what they want before they turn us on? [12:57pm] murph: yeah so I'll make sure to get that in asap, as I'm excited for the day when we'll be able to turn on safe browsing [12:58pm] ardissone: [12:58pm] ardissone: on to hendy so he can go back to sleep [12:58pm] ardissone: hendy: utf-8 and zoom changes? [12:59pm] hendy: priority is to get a new patch for text zoom only done [12:59pm] hendy: then back to utf-8. i've got the technique pretty much sorted now; just a lot of cleanup to do. [12:59pm] hendy: i also want to get on to some of the firstname.lastname@example.org i10n bugs [1:00pm] ardissone: k [1:00pm] ardissone: should do a pass and make sure they're all still there and ours [1:01pm] ardissone: sounds good [1:01pm] cl was promoted to operator by you. [1:01pm] ardissone: i've been hacking on the safebrowisng overlay UI some [1:02pm] ardissone: philippe and i got new/fixed icons in [1:02pm] ardissone: markus had some more questions about Gecko strings i need to get back to [1:02pm] ardissone: cl: anything from you? [1:03pm] cl: uh [1:03pm] cl: i got nothin. [1:03pm] ardissone: k [1:03pm] cl: i mean, i have a bunch, but it's after 1 [1:03pm] ardissone: anyone else have anything on 2.0/b4 (besides "ship it" ) [1:03pm] smorgan: Yes [1:03pm] smorgan: I had completely forgotten about https://bug401340.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=316155 [1:03pm] ardissone: no status updates, i meant? [1:04pm] smorgan: Oh, not a status update, sorry [1:04pm] ardissone: no, that was for cl, sorry [1:04pm] ardissone: that's the darker bm bar? [1:04pm] smorgan: Yes, and tabs a bit [1:04pm] smorgan: Does anyone *not* think we should just do that? [1:05pm] smorgan: pinkerton: ^^^ [1:05pm] ardissone: do we have a smfr bookmark bar shot? [1:05pm] smorgan: https://bug401340.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=316158 [1:05pm] ardissone: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=401340 for everyone at home [1:06pm] ardissone: is that going to be a 10.5-only set of changes? [1:06pm] smorgan: It would just change our current 10.5-only stuff [1:06pm] pinkerton: reads [1:06pm] ardissone: and the tabs? [1:07pm] smorgan: Well, I guess the tabs would be for all platforms [1:07pm] smorgan: But that's a very minor change, and should look fine I would think [1:08pm] ardissone: i'm a little concerned with the tabs, especially for 10.4 [1:09pm] smorgan: What about them? [1:10pm] ardissone: the active one looks less well in the smfr-bar [1:10pm] pinkerton: i like it, i think it looks ok. unsure about how it'll look on 10.4 [1:10pm] ardissone: (and i don't have 10.4 screenshots) [1:11pm] ardissone: could we load different images on 10.4 if we needed to? [1:11pm] smorgan: Sure [1:12pm] ardissone: let's commission some 10.4 screenshots, with the idea of using this on 10.5 and separate images on 10.4 if needed? [1:12pm] ardissone: (since the bmbar is already 10.5/10.4 split) [1:13pm] smorgan: sure [1:13pm] smorgan: Or we could land it, and then revisit 10.4 if necessary [1:13pm] ardissone: (i personally don't like the darker bmbar as much, but apparently most people don't like the lighter bar we borrowed from the OS ) [1:14pm] ardissone: ok, as long as we do revisit it [1:14pm] smorgan: I find the three different tones distracting, more and more over time [1:14pm] smorgan: These screenshots feel more like just two [1:14pm] ardissone: mhm [1:15pm] ardissone: make it so? [1:15pm] smorgan: pinkerton: so sr=you to land as is (module making the tab images taller) [1:15pm] smorgan: ? [1:15pm] pinkerton: k [1:16pm] ardissone: oh, these are pre-taller tabs? [1:16pm] ardissone: heh [1:16pm] ardissone: pre-Google site icon 2, even [1:16pm] smorgan: Yeah, it sat for a year [1:16pm] smorgan: Not sure how it fell off our radar [1:16pm] ardissone: [1:17pm] ardissone: people stopped complaining? [1:17pm] smorgan: pinkerton: while I'm getting sr's... https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505601#c0 [1:17pm] pinkerton: i'll try to get there later. really busy. [1:17pm] ardissone: anyway, a quick wrapup: the r queue is at its lowest level in ages; i'm not sure if that means we're finally doing a good job of emptying it, or if we're doing a bad job of filling it [1:18pm] ardissone: if the former, good job everyone! [1:18pm] smorgan: pinkerton: this you just have to read the comment and either say "okay" or "wait wait, what about X?" [1:18pm] ardissone: if the latter, write more patches! ;) [1:19pm] pinkerton: fine [1:19pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else? [1:20pm] ardissone: anyone still here? ;) [1:20pm] ardissone: ok, everyone have a good week, keep working on those 2.0b4 bugs/patches/reviews :) [1:22pm] cl: hands pinkerton tea, earl grey, hot [1:22pm] pinkerton: mmm [1:22pm] pinkerton left the chat room.