Status Meetings:2010-02-03:Log

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Log from #camino-mtg starting 2010-02-03 02:59:41 -0500

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02:59 » ardissone was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
02:59 » ardissone changed the topic to "".
03:00 » cl|zzz was promoted to operator by ardissone.
03:00 ardissone: er
03:00 ardissone: i suppose i really don't need to be here for another 12+ hours :P
14:35 » cl joined the chat room.
15:44 » sauron joined the chat room.
15:44 » sauron was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
15:53 » pinkerton joined the chat room.
15:53 » pinkerton was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
15:55 » cl was promoted to operator by ardissone.
15:59 » Wevah joined the chat room.
16:00 » Wevah was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:00 » smorgan joined the chat room.
16:00 » kreeger joined the chat room.
16:00 » hendy joined the chat room.
16:00 » smorgan was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:00 » kreeger was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:00 » hendy was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:01 ardissone: ok, are we missing anyone?
16:01 ardissone: re-scans the #camino list
16:02 ardissone: unless ilya or dan show up, i guess
16:02 ardissone: so, everyone please open in your Camino 2.0.1 or later :P
16:02 ardissone: The most interesting thing about 2.0.1 is that crashes fell hard
16:03 ardissone: not sure if Socorro is broken or what
16:03 ardissone: we don't have ping stats for the past two weeks, but prior to that the numbers had been pretty stable
16:04 ardissone: so i'm really not sure what's going on
16:04 smorgan: Maybe the universe got better
16:04 ardissone: everyone decided to turn off Flash!
16:04 pinkerton: heh
16:04 ardissone: well, not everyone, but another ~10% or so :P
16:05 ardissone: so i really have nothing else to say about 2.0.1
16:05 ardissone: anyone else have anything to say about 2.0.1?
16:06 pinkerton: no
16:06 Wevah: i don't
16:06 ardissone: ok
16:07 ardissone: on 1.6.10, crashes fell slightly again; I forgot to count the Flash crashes this time, but seemed like about half by eyeballs
16:07 ardissone: on 1.6.11, there are a few new nominations depending on when we ship (new Flashblock, new ad-blocking), but that's it
16:07 ardissone: still no idea of a Gecko ship date
16:08 ardissone: anyone have anything else on 1.6.x?
16:08 ardissone: on the 2.0.2 front, we're getting closer to the Gecko release date
16:09 ardissone: as far as Camino, we're basically waiting on a new patch from cl for the Flash exceptions list validation
16:10 ardissone: hendy: can you recap what you discovered about ?
16:10 ardissone: has half-asleep memories of something
16:10 hendy: well, i did an NS_ADDREF on the docshell in that method
16:11 hendy: and it stopped crashing
16:11 hendy: but it leaked a lot, so i'm guessing we need a release call somewhere
16:12 ardissone: somewhere else in docshell?
16:12 hendy: somewhere in nsWebBrowser
16:12 ardissone: er, right
16:13 smorgan: You should post the fact that it fixes it to the bug
16:13 smorgan: bzbarsky may have more suggestions from there
16:13 hendy: righto
16:13 ardissone: yeah, that's true; he might even come up with a patch magically
16:14 ardissone: it's been known to happen
16:14 ardissone: :)
16:15 ardissone: on bug we've got a lot of logging info
16:15 ardissone: i have no clue what it means
16:16 ardissone: other than plug-ins suck
16:16 ardissone: so if we have some other ideas where to go next, that would be good
16:17 smorgan: Looks like we aren't telling plugins when windows are hidden
16:17 ardissone: if the bug is as bad as Armen says it is for people who do use Flash on 10.6, it's pretty awful
16:18 ardissone: oh, i remember now poking around in ChildView trying to find something, too
16:18 smorgan: Ideally the next step would be for someone to build Firefox and see what the stack is for the NPP_SetWindow call on hid
16:18 smorgan: e
16:18 smorgan: So we can see what it is that we need to be calling to inform the plugin
16:18 ardissone: ok
16:19 smorgan: Actually... that may not be the problem
16:19 smorgan: I'd need to look at the plugin source to see what those NULLs are
16:20 ardissone: "Hide" is implemented all automatically for us by some bit of Cocoa, right?
16:20 smorgan: Not telling the plugin that it is hidden should just be a perf hit, now that I think about it
16:20 ardissone: heh
16:21 smorgan: I'll look at the plugin source
16:21 ardissone: OK
16:22 ardissone: i still haven't gotten back to that idea of alternate method of l10n for error/certerror pages
16:23 ardissone: so, given other things, probably not a 2.0.x thing any more
16:23 ardissone: anyone else have anything for 2.0.x?
16:24 ardissone: ok, on to 2.1
16:25 ardissone: dan's "auto-appearing autocomplete window" got sr along with one of the minor patches; need new patches for checkin
16:25 ardissone: the perf patch, smorgan is in the middle of reviewing
16:25 ardissone: i think it looks like it will need at least another go-round?
16:26 smorgan: Yeah
16:27 ardissone: and i think we really need to have that worked out for an alpha; i can't dogfood the current perf
16:28 ardissone: philippe has started working on fixing our issues with the toolbar icons :)
16:29 ardissone: and now over to hendy for the weekly mork-EOL update :)
16:29 cl: I've been living with it, but current perf is *really* starting to wear on me.
16:29 hendy: well, there's a patch up
16:29 cl: especially because I use history as bookmarks so much of the time
16:29 hendy: seems to work ok
16:30 hendy: it's more or less the same way of loading the history from the db
16:30 hendy: and performance is about the same
16:31 cl: That's better than nothing :)
16:31 hendy: but it should be enough for 2.1
16:32 hendy: going forward, i think we can begin moving towards smarter loading and querying
16:32 ardissone: be sure we file follow-ups on that, maybe even right now
16:32 hendy: ie: translate autocomplete searches straight into navhistoryqueries
16:33 hendy: yeah, i'll file stuff as soon as i get a better handle on what areas need improving, and in what way
16:33 ardissone: k
16:34 ardissone: i'll start trying to get a 1.9.1 build to track down basic build-config and packaging changes
16:35 hendy: the good news is that dan's perf patch looks compatible with my changes
16:35 ardissone: :D
16:35 ardissone: over the last week or so, I've managed (with much pain and some less-than-optimal results) to get camino/ into an Hg test repo:
16:36 ardissone: lots of checkins got split into multiple parts, for unknown reasons
16:36 smorgan: Dog slow CVS checkins?
16:36 ardissone: not really
16:36 ardissone: i mean, that's some of it
16:37 ardissone: but look at the timestamps on the 2.0.1 relnotes or your bookmark refactor
16:38 ardissone: there's a missed file or something in the last part of the bookmark refactor, but the other checkins for it are all the same timestamp
16:38 ardissone: (click the stupid ... at the bottom of the table to show more checkins)
16:40 ardissone: at any rate, i hadn't gotten to the point of figuring out how to make a unified pull/build, which is the next thing before a repo is usable
16:41 ardissone: but for the moment, i'm going to switch tracks to the build-changes for 1.9.1, so we can see what a 1.9.1 looks like
16:41 ardissone: and see if it seems viable or "a waste of time" ;)
16:42 ardissone: which brings us back to today
16:42 ardissone: we have no idea if 1.9.1 is feasible yet, but we also don't have dan's perf patch, either
16:44 ardissone: so we need to push back Alpha 1 until then, and reasonably the 1.9.1 yes/no decision, too
16:45 ardissone: anyone have any other thoughts on 2.1?
16:46 Wevah: i wish i had something to interject
16:46 Wevah: but no :)
16:46 ardissone: hehe
16:46 ardissone: ok, i want to flip-around the other items
16:46 ardissone: Did everyone see that we're one of the finalists for's Best Independent Web Browser?
16:47 cl: I did. And voted for us. :)
16:47 pinkerton: really?
16:47 ardissone: yes
16:47 pinkerton: nice.
16:47 cl: pinkerton: don't get too excited; the competition we're up against isn't very good, IMO :-p
16:47 ardissone: (note that despite MoCo PR's efforts to get fx in that category, fx is only in the major browser category ;) )
16:47 pinkerton: is the webkit browser steve jobs built onstage also in the running?
16:47 cl: (as in, one of them I had never even heard of)
16:47 ardissone: no, just Flock :P
16:48 ardissone: two IE shells
16:48 ardissone: and...i can't remember #5
16:48 cl: pinkerton: I think that browser has more users than the IE shell other than Maxthon that's in it
16:48 cl: at least people have heard of Maxthon :-p
16:48 pinkerton: heh
16:48 cl: this other thing was some crazy IE shell that had all of one vote :-p
16:49 ardissone: anyway, going to try to write up a post for the Camino blog like for the last time one of these contests had us in it
16:49 pinkerton: nice
16:49 ardissone: not sure yet when the voting ends
16:50 ardissone: anyway, that's pretty cool that a Mac-only browser made it :)
16:50 ardissone: next
16:50 ardissone: ss: updates on AppZapper?
16:51 ardissone: ok
16:51 ardissone: also, Summer of Code
16:52 ardissone: it always jumps up on us
16:52 ardissone: shows what we ended up with last year
16:52 cl: wow, way to be proactive on that one
16:52 ardissone: it's Feb
16:52 ardissone: projects are due in Mar usually
16:52 cl: heh. I probably would have thought of that around the end of March :-p
16:53 ardissone: pinkerton, smorgan: will you both be available for mentors again this summer?
16:53 pinkerton: probably, not sure if i'm doing anything with
16:53 smorgan: I'm not sure yet
16:54 pinkerton: we can probably make something work
16:54 ardissone: ok
16:55 ardissone: next question: do we still think the "Suggestions" are valid, aside from the mentor question and the one dan did?
16:56 smorgan: I'd say so
16:56 ardissone: ok, i'll go ahead and update that part of the page for 2010
16:57 ardissone: and if you have additional project ideas, add them in the scratchpad section
16:58 ardissone: pinkerton: wrt that patch of mine: are you saying we should dispense with sr for trivial patches?
16:59 pinkerton: it looked like a bookkeeping question ("which url to send something to") not really a coding question
16:59 pinkerton: if someone else says "yes, that's the right url" you don't need me to bless it.
16:59 ardissone: ok
17:00 ardissone: anyone have anything else on anything today?
17:02 ardissone: whoever next sees ss should poke him about AppZapper
17:02 pinkerton: alaina wants a monkey
17:02 ardissone: not a pony?
17:02 pinkerton: don't give her any ideas
17:02 ardissone: whoops
17:02 Wevah: haha
17:03 ardissone: likewise, we should poke cl about his formatter ;)
17:03 cl: is wearing poke-resistant clothing
17:03 cl: grumbles something about doing the right thing for users even if it's extra work
17:03 ardissone: it feels like a better, more productive meeting today; not sure if that's true or just me
17:04 ardissone: "4pm placebo effect" :P
17:04 Wevah: which formatter?
17:04 ardissone: ok, everyone have a good afternoon then, and see you next week