Status Meetings:2006-08-28:Log
09:05 <@ss|work> Alright. 09:05 <@ss|work> Welcome everyone to another weekly meeting 09:05 <@ss|work> Please open the wiki page and follow along. 09:05 <@ss|work> http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2006-08-28 09:05 <@ss|work> First up, I hand the floor to delliott who's going to talk about SoC
stuff.
09:05 <@ardissone|away> (lots of stuff today) 09:05 <@delliott> Thanks. 09:05 <@delliott> I'll try to keep this quick seeing as the list is long. 09:06 <@delliott> We learnt at Uni that it's important to chat about things after a project 09:06 <@delliott> Mike and I have finished our evaluations 09:06 <@delliott> I wrote down that he smells 09:06 <@delliott> I thought I'd start by saying that as a newcomer, the community was
pretty receptive.
09:07 <@delliott> Everybody did what they could to make me feel like part of the team 09:07 <@ardissone|away> :) 09:07 <@delliott> And that is not easy when new people show up and start wailing about
build errors.
09:07 <@pinkerton> i do smell, and i cry a lot 09:07 <@peeja> had me fooled when i got here. :) 09:08 <@delliott> It's not too hard to get involved in the dev community so that is a good
thing
09:08 <@delliott> We are working on our build docs so hopefully more people will get
involved too
09:08 <@ardissone|away> (hopefully next week...) 09:08 <@delliott> Onto the progress of the project. 09:09 <@delliott> As we all know, I didn't finish the code. 09:09 <@ss|work> booo 09:09 <@ss|work> hisss 09:09 <@delliott> But I am still here, so it is pretty safe to say that it will be
finished.
09:09 <@froodian> code is never finished 09:09 <@ss|work> ;) 09:09 <@froodian> you accomplished a lot regardless 09:09 <@hwaara> code is always buggy :( 09:09 <@hwaara> :) 09:09 <@peeja> and there were some bumps along the way... :( 09:09 <@ardissone|away> it was great just to be able to drag tabs for a bit :) 09:10 * ardissone|away hides 09:10 <@delliott> I took a lot of criticism from lots of different people about my project
this summer and I took it personally when I should have taken it more as
an interest in what I was doing.
09:10 <@delliott> So I'm gonna apologise for moaning in the channel. 09:11 <@delliott> But it has all turned out well because now I think I know the difference
between moaners and people who have genuine feedback.
09:11 <@froodian> :) 09:11 <@ss|work> *cough* smorgan *cough* 09:11 <@delliott> Hehe 09:12 <@delliott> I need to do a little more work on bug 319777 and hopefully it will R+ 09:12 <@delliott> Bug 160720 is a whole different level of pain 09:13 <@delliott> Mainly because we have lots of different views and getting to the right
one can be problematic
09:13 <@hwaara> (unfortunately there's no bot here to tell what the bugs are about) 09:13 <@delliott> So yes, I didn't finish the code but seeing as I'd never written Obj-C
before, I'm not too gutted.
09:13 !sand.mozilla.org ss|work invited thebot into the channel. 09:13 -!- thebot [pid-12949@2E23C0E1.1B475606.C8C62208.IP] has joined #camino-mtg 09:14 <@froodian> (first one is scrolling, second one is dragging) 09:14 <@hwaara> ah, thx 09:14 <@delliott> Dragging between windows is a subset of dragging 09:14 <@delliott> Once you can drag it will be a minor tweak to drag between windows 09:14 <@ss|work> On to the criticism! 09:14 <@ss|work> ;) 09:14 <@delliott> Positive stuff first 09:15 <@ss|work> Oh, right. 09:15 <@delliott> This is where everybody can join in. 09:15 <@delliott> So, positive points... 09:15 <@froodian> lots of new camino code! 09:15 <@ardissone|away> we didn't scare you off :) 09:15 <@froodian> good tab stuff in line for future releases 09:15 <@froodian> heh 09:15 <@froodian> yeah 09:15 <@ss|work> We've got a new lifer. 09:15 <@delliott> ardissone|away: I nearly left after I killed my MacBook :p 09:16 <@ardissone|away> :( 09:16 <@BruceD> someone new learns that Obj-C and the Camino code in ObjC is different,
but not actually scary
09:16 <@delliott> I quite enjoyed the challenge of working with people around the world 09:16 <@hwaara> great to see progress on the tabs bugs that we'd been fighting about before 09:17 <@delliott> Until you actually get stuck into open-source you have these magical
ideas about what it might be like
09:17 <@hwaara> lots of patience and gray hair 09:17 <@delliott> One of the other positive things might be that the project has somebody
who is fiddling with the tab code again
09:17 <@hwaara> and perseverance :) 09:17 <@froodian> cool 09:17 <@froodian> criticism? 09:17 <@ardissone|away> !!!! 09:17 <@delliott> Constructive criticism, fire away. 09:18 <@ss|work> I was actually looking for it from you, delliott. 09:18 <@delliott> Ok 09:18 <@ss|work> :) 09:18 <@ardissone|away> mhm 09:18 <@delliott> I'll start by saying that what I tried to achieve was ridiculous. 09:18 <@peeja> yes. 09:18 <@delliott> Considering my total lack of experience in Obj-C / Mozilla 09:19 <@peeja> thank god for people who take on the ridiculous. :) 09:19 * hwaara is in the same situation, fwiw 09:19 <@delliott> If we put out bounties for next year we need to think about whether or
not we want to take on a wild child or somebody who can already code.
09:20 <@delliott> I found the reviews system gruelling. Though the people reviewing the
code probably found it worse!
09:20 <@hwaara> why? 09:21 <@delliott> Perhap because the patches I was writing were larger than many first
patches
09:21 <@hwaara> was it the system or the reviews in itself? :) 09:22 <@delliott> The system is fine, I think I just found the reviews difficult. 09:22 <@delliott> But most people probably don't try to submit big patches from the start 09:22 <@BruceD> Yeah, its very difficult getting code past good reviewers, until you've
had (lots of) practice
09:23 <@delliott> BruceD: Yes, but now I think "What will the reviewer say?" 09:23 <@pinkerton> generally the problem is getting people to do reviews and it getting
backed up
09:23 <@delliott> So it makes a better coder out of you if you can stick it. 09:23 <@froodian> pinkerton: yes 09:23 <@ss|work> pinkerton: Which is something we're going to talk about later. 09:23 <@BruceD> yeah. you're later code is much better structured than your early patches 09:23 <@pinkerton> ok 09:23 <@froodian> speaking of which, we should keep this moving 09:23 <@ss|work> Yeah, we should. 09:23 <@hwaara> how much later? 09:23 <@ss|work> Today. 09:23 <@delliott> I cannot criticise much of the Camino team 09:23 <@delliott> Just myself 09:23 <@delliott> Conclusion 09:24 !sand.mozilla.org ss|work invited _Tsk_ into the channel. 09:24 <@delliott> Had a great time, nearly gave up, fought on, am still here. Beer! 09:24 <@froodian> :D 09:24 <@hwaara> nice! 09:24 <@delliott> Oh, and we need to pester Hofmann for the $500 09:24 <@ss|work> Awesome. 09:24 <@ss|work> That's pinkerton's job. 09:24 <@hwaara> can we move the review topic up a bit? 09:24 <@ardissone|away> :) 09:25 <@ss|work> It's not as important as the rest, actually... 09:25 <@delliott> Ok, I'm done. Thanks for reading :) 09:25 <@ss|work> mento: This next one is mainly for yo. 09:25 <@ss|work> you* 09:25 <@hwaara> it's important for some of us.. 09:25 <@ss|work> Who can we bug when we have tbox issues during the "off hours" 09:25 <@froodian> hwaara: we'll get there 09:25 <@ss|work> hwaara: I'm not saying it's not important, just not "as" important. 09:25 <@mento> ss|work: build@mozilla.org 09:25 <@mento> #build 09:25 <@mento> preed 09:25 <@mento> coop 09:25 <@hwaara> it's dinner time here, but whatever 09:25 <@mento> rhelmer 09:25 <@ardissone|away> alos, pawn needs its crash dialogs reset 09:25 <@ss|work> mento: Alright, because currently we've been having a lot of red/orang. 09:26 <@mento> so has the trunk 09:26 <@ss|work> Yeah, what ardissone|away said. 09:26 <@ss|work> mento: Sure, but we've had more. ;) 09:26 <@ardissone|away> starting at 5pm on Fridays :/ 09:26 <@mento> yeah, a little bit more 09:26 <@ss|work> And things like lost perf is going to be hellish... 09:26 <@mento> let me check pawn's dialogs now 09:26 <@ss|work> (later anyway) 09:26 <@ss|work> Next: 09:26 <@ardissone|away> maybe maya, too, since the trunk was fubared 09:27 <@ss|work> 1.0.3 09:27 <@ss|work> We have three patches that need landing. 09:27 <@ardissone|away> we have 3 patches ready 09:27 <@ardissone|away> kreeger was gonna land them this am 09:27 <@ss|work> It's very important that we get them in sooner rather than later. 09:27 <@mento> 7 crash dialogs closed 09:27 <@ss|work> So we have time to get everything in. 09:27 <@ss|work> Yuck 09:27 <@mento> thank you for pointing that out 09:27 <@ardissone|away> but obviously he didn't shwo 09:27 <@ardissone|away> mento: np 09:27 <@ss|work> So, does anyone have time to land three patches? 09:28 <@ardissone|away> (can we get #build to do that, too) 09:28 <@ss|work> (On the 1.8.0 branch) 09:28 <@ss|work> Anyone able to check it in? 09:28 <@pinkerton> mento: thx i was just doing that 09:29 <@ardissone|away> ss|work: kreeger seemed ok with doing it 09:29 <@ss|work> Alright. I'll bug him more. 09:29 <@ss|work> We're looking good for 1.0.3 09:29 <@ss|work> But we still need to know about bug 175651 09:29 <@mento> pinkerton: np 09:29 < thebot> ss|work: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175651 maj, --,
Camino1.1, sfraser_bugs@smfr.org, ASSI, CJK (at least Chinese and
Japanese) font Preferences changes not applied to any CJK Web page
09:29 <@ss|work> mento: You goingt o have time this week for that bug? 09:29 <@ss|work> going to* 09:29 <@mento> probly 09:29 * ss|work crosses his fingers 09:30 <@ardissone|away> :) 09:30 <@ss|work> mento: Next question for you, what needs to be done for bug 343837? 09:30 <@ardissone|away> also, what do we want to do about the fubared ciphers dialog on
180/103?
09:30 < thebot> ss|work: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343837 maj, --,
Camino1.1, nobody@mozilla.org, NEW, SSL2/weak ciphers disabled messages
contain "(null)" instead of "Camino"
09:30 <@ardissone|away> * Leave it as is 09:30 <@ardissone|away> * Patch the string to say "Camino and this site" (lose dynamic
hostname)
09:30 <@mento> ardissone|away: you said that we can't really fix it, right? 09:30 <@mento> yeah 09:31 <@mento> it looks bad as it is now 09:31 <@ardissone|away> we could patch the string like that, but yeah 09:31 <@mento> but i think it's important to have the hostname in the string 09:31 <@ardissone|away> k 09:31 <@ardissone|away> so we do nothing there for 10x 09:31 <@ss|work> Awesome. 09:31 <@ss|work> Everything else for 1.0.3 will probably not make it. 09:32 <@ss|work> Next: 09:32 <@ss|work> 1.1 09:32 <@ardissone|away> i'd like to try and get bugs landed and relnotes ready by Fri 09:32 <@ss|work> We're _slowly_ progressing. 09:32 <@ss|work> 2 bugs/week isn't that good 09:32 <@ss|work> But it is progression. 09:32 <@ardissone|away> not as fast as 2 weeka ago 09:32 <@ardissone|away> 2 weeks ago we landed 5-8 bugs 09:32 <@ss|work> This is where kreeger would talk about RSS. 09:32 <@ss|work> But he's not here. 09:33 <@hwaara> I'd like to fix cmd-clicking/middle-clicking on bookmarks, but all
super-reviewers are swamped
09:33 <@froodian> the speed problem is due to reviewing 09:33 <@froodian> which leads us to our next issue 09:33 <@hwaara> it's a dogfood thingy 09:33 <@ss|work> The SR queue is actually good right now. 09:33 <@ss|work> Is the R queue that' 09:33 <@ss|work> s having problems 09:34 <@ardissone|away> mento: i have those proj patches for you and hwaara ;) 09:34 -!- SimonTheSoundMan [SimonTheSo@6F6BB858.80E17092.97A297A6.IP] has joined
#camino-mtg
09:34 <@mento> nice, is it in my review q? 09:34 <@ardissone|away> sr q 09:34 <@ss|work> Yes. 09:34 <@ss|work> We have a lot of patches waiting for R. 09:34 <@mento> ok 09:34 <@ss|work> We need more reviewers over all... 09:34 <@froodian> and the most important one is haas's patch 09:34 <@ss|work> Yes. 09:35 <@ss|work> We *need* that reviewed. 09:35 <@froodian> somebody needs to take that in a major way 09:35 <@ss|work> And today we need someone to decide to review it. 09:35 <@ss|work> Who's up for it? 09:35 <@ardissone|away> it's not huge, but it's not tiny 09:36 <@ardissone|away> hwaara? 09:36 <@hwaara> I took a look 09:36 <@hwaara> I think the approach looks good 09:36 <@hwaara> I just hope the sr will know about threads :) 09:37 <@ss|work> Can you give it a full R then? 09:37 <@hwaara> (I do, but it's still not easy as a pie) 09:37 <@hwaara> ok 09:37 <@ss|work> So we can get it to the SR level? 09:37 <@hwaara> if I can get some kind of traction on my middle click bug in return :P 09:37 <@hwaara> it's been blocked for god knows how long 09:37 <@ss|work> hwaara: Does it have an sr? 09:37 <@ss|work> I haven't seen it in the queue... 09:37 <@hwaara> ss|work: no, it has nothing 09:38 <@hwaara> it's in pinkerton's sr queue 09:38 <@ardissone|away> no one wants to touch it :( 09:38 <@ss|work> pinkerton: Do you have time to look at the patch in bug 228840? 09:38 < thebot> ss|work: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228840 enh, --,
Camino1.1, hwaara@gmail.com, NEW, Bookmarks toolbar - Middle-click should
open bookmark in new tab
09:38 <@hwaara> but pink don't have time, sfraser has said no too, and I've asked mento a
few times but I think it's too much for him too
09:38 <@ardissone|away> and smorgan is the review q 09:38 <@hwaara> ss|work: he said no in comment 41 09:39 <@ss|work> smorgan reviewed it before... 09:39 <@ss|work> Why don't we do this: 09:39 <@ss|work> You take a couple reviews of froodian's stuff from smorgan and give that
one to smorgan.
09:40 <@froodian> i have some small stuff 09:40 <@ardissone|away> and when we see him, we'll promote that reviewv ;) 09:40 <@froodian> very small 09:40 <@hwaara> I can try, my time is limited too though 09:40 <@ss|work> hwaara: Most of froodian's stuff is pretty small. 09:40 <@froodian> hwaara: when the meeting's done i'll tell you which bugs you want ;) 09:40 <@hwaara> sure, target me! 09:40 <@froodian> k 09:41 * ardissone|away wonders how BruceD's schedule looks 09:41 <@hwaara> is anyone reviewing the RSS patches? 09:41 <@froodian> smorgan 09:41 <@ardissone|away> hwaara: smorgan was 09:41 <@BruceD> just peered at the review queue, most of the patches look bigger than I'm
going to have time to review properly
09:41 <@froodian> it's close 09:41 <@ardissone|away> k 09:42 <@froodian> next item? 09:42 <@ss|work> Sure 09:42 <@hwaara> BruceD: maybe if you divide some patch ? 09:42 <@ardissone|away> next mon is labor day 09:42 <@hwaara> I did that with torben's last zoom patch, it worked well 09:42 <@ss|work> Is everyone okay with moving the meeting to Tuesday? 09:42 <@ss|work> I know I'll be drunk next Monday. 09:42 <@BruceD> hwaara: what do you mean? 09:43 <@hwaara> BruceD: if it's some big patch where changes are in different places, it
has helped me in the past to divide the review in a few days
09:43 <@froodian> I'll have class at the time 09:43 <@hwaara> and do one part every day 09:43 <@froodian> on tuesday 09:43 <@peeja> fine with me 09:43 <@ss|work> Who else has an issue with Tuesday? 09:43 <@ss|work> pinkerton, mento: 09:43 <@Pinolo> fine with me too 09:44 <@mento> tuesday ok 09:44 <@BruceD> yeah, monday's are much better for me, as likely to be abroad for work by
Tuesday evening, and European hotels charge _shocking_ rates for WiFi :-(
09:44 <@ss|work> BruceD: Normally it'll be Monday 09:44 <@ss|work> Just next week we want to move it due to a holiday in the US. 09:44 <@BruceD> yeah, fine if u want to change just next weeks 09:45 <@ss|work> I'll assume pinkerton's okay with Tuesday morning unless he says
otherwise.
09:45 <@ss|work> froodian: You can read the log. ;) 09:45 <@froodian> yup 09:45 <@ss|work> bug 311781 09:45 < thebot> ss|work: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311781 nor, --,
Camino1.1, stridey@gmail.com, ASSI, Fix toggle/non-toggle situation in
Bookmarks/History by adding a new shortcut
09:45 <@ss|work> What do we want to do there? 09:45 <@ss|work> Should there be three menu items? 09:45 <@ss|work> Or is "toggle" an alternate? 09:46 <@ardissone|away> toggle is the current "default" so i'm leery of hiding/changing it 09:46 <@froodian> i say three menu items 09:46 <@ardissone|away> although half the world seems to hate it 09:46 <@froodian> plus, that way we can use cmd-shift-M 09:46 <@froodian> which is much nicer than cmd-opt-B 09:46 <@froodian> (just for ease of hitting) 09:47 <@ss|work> I'm alright with three menu items... 09:47 <@peeja> why can't cmd-B just close the BM if bookmarks are up? 09:47 <@froodian> so cmd-Y = show history, cmd-B = show bookmarks, cmd-shift-M = toggle
manager
09:47 <@ss|work> I'm not sure how that'll look visually. 09:47 <@peeja> and cmd-Y if history is up? 09:47 <@froodian> peeja: because it's lopsided with history 09:48 <@peeja> lopsided? 09:48 <@froodian> cmd-b is a toggle 09:48 <@ardissone|away> y always focuses history 09:48 <@froodian> cmd-y isn't 09:48 <@ss|work> peeja: If I hit cmd-b click on the "history" collection, what closes the
manager?
09:48 <@Pinolo> I don't see much the point 09:48 <@peeja> ss|work: don't know off the top of my head 09:48 <@ss|work> :) 09:48 <@ardissone|away> Cmd-Y either shows the mgr and history, or switches to history in
a shown mgr
09:49 <@froodian> ok. so, so cmd-Y = show history, cmd-B = show bookmarks, cmd-shift-M =
toggle manager. three menu items. three toolbar items.
09:49 <@froodian> does anybody have a problem iwth that? 09:49 <@froodian> pinkerton: a=you? 09:49 <@Pinolo> Apart from reporter are ther many peolple who think that current behaviour
is wrong?
09:49 <@delliott> It has never bugged me. 09:49 <@ardissone|away> Pinolo: yes, people file bugs all the time 09:49 <@ardissone|away> complain in the forum 09:49 <@delliott> I never even noticed what this bug describes 09:49 <@ardissone|away> dunno about feedback 09:49 <@froodian> delliott: you'd also never noticed tab groups 09:49 <@Pinolo> ok, tnx ardissone 09:50 <@hwaara> ok, gotta go now 09:50 <@BruceD> three menu and toolbar items sounds horrible, though I sort of like the
key combos
09:50 <@hwaara> was this the last item? 09:50 <@peeja> froodian: here's what i don't like: 09:50 <@froodian> hwaara: not even close 09:50 <@ardissone|away> hwaara: 2-3 more bugs 09:50 -!- _Tsk_ [ludovic@183BDF58.599B7C47.C7DB8B78.IP] has joined #camino-mtg 09:50 <@peeja> if you hit cmd-b by accient, you have to press cmd-opt-B to undo it 09:50 <@ardissone|away> there's Ludo 09:50 <@hwaara> ok 09:50 <@hwaara> later all 09:50 <@Pinolo> hi Ludo! 09:50 <@froodian> peeja: or back 09:50 < _Tsk_> sorry fogot and had network issues 09:50 -!- hwaara [hwaara@5718B00C.2191EBAD.7EF74A51.IP] has left #camino-mtg [] 09:50 <@BruceD> why not just make cmd+Y a toggle too!? 09:51 <@Pinolo> mmmm, cmd-shift-M.... 09:51 <@ardissone|away> BruceD: don't go there ;) 09:51 <@peeja> i'm with BruceD, myself... 09:51 <@ardissone|away> there are old bugs suggesting that; see pink's reaction there 09:51 <@froodian> so if you're in bookmarks and hit history, the bookmarks manager closes? 09:51 <@ardissone|away> (i filed one of them) 09:51 < _Tsk_> # ? 09:52 <@ardissone|away> _Tsk_: bug Bug 311781 09:52 <@peeja> no, if you're in bms, history comes up 09:52 < thebot> ardissone|away: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311781
nor, --, Camino1.1, stridey@gmail.com, ASSI, Fix toggle/non-toggle
situation in Bookmarks/History by adding a new shortcut
09:52 <@froodian> peeja: but then it's not a toggle 09:52 <@ss|work> So it's a conditional toggle. 09:52 <@ss|work> Which is weird. 09:52 <@froodian> cmd-b ALWAYS toggles the manager 09:52 <@ardissone|away> _Tsk_: first bug in "Bugs that need action" on the wiki agenda 09:52 <@froodian> (now) 09:52 <@peeja> i don't find it weird. 09:52 <@peeja> i find it intuitive 09:52 <@froodian> it's still lopsided 09:52 <@pinkerton> right, history should not be a conditional toggle 09:52 * _Tsk_ dosen't follow the wiki 09:53 <@ardissone|away> _Tsk_: the /topic 09:53 <@peeja> you can see bookmarks, or history, or none. 09:53 <@peeja> asking for what you don't see brings it up. 09:53 <@ardissone|away> no 09:53 <@BruceD> if you're viewing history and hit cmd+B that should change to the bookmarks 09:53 <@peeja> asking for what you're looking at toggles it away 09:53 <@froodian> this is why we want three 09:53 <@froodian> one for "asking what you want" 09:54 <@froodian> and one for toggling the whole manager 09:54 <@ss|work> pinkerton: Are you okay with adding a third item for "toggle manager"? 09:54 <@ardissone|away> right, what BruceD mentions is the problem with peeja's siggestion 09:54 <@pinkerton> no 09:54 <@peeja> i'm saying you can do it with two 09:54 <@ss|work> froodian: ^^ 09:54 <@peeja> ardissone|away: how's that? 09:54 * peeja defers to pink 09:54 <@ardissone|away> peeja: if you're looking at history and hit cmd-b now, you don't
see bookmarks, you close the mgr
09:55 <@froodian> ss|work: what am I looking at? pinkerton saying no to third item? 09:55 <@froodian> so what're we going to do? 09:55 <@ss|work> froodian: Yeah. 09:55 <@peeja> ardissone|away: right, i meant in my suggestion. but it's past now. 09:55 <@pinkerton> i'm saying no to a 3rd item 09:55 <@froodian> what we have is lopsided and confusing 09:55 <@peeja> oh 09:55 <@froodian> pinkerton: ok. but what we have is lopsided and confusing. what should
we do instead?
09:56 <@pinkerton> there is no perfect solution 09:56 <@froodian> conditional toggle is out, 3rd item is out... 09:56 <@pinkerton> we'll stick with what we have, moving along 09:56 <@froodian> k 09:56 <@ardissone|away> why is 3rd item worse than what we have now? 09:56 <@froodian> Bug 287708 09:56 <@ardissone|away> sigh 09:56 < thebot> froodian: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=287708 tri, --,
Camino1.2, stridey@gmail.com, NEW, When adding bookmark, "bookmark bar"
should be above "bookmarks menu" in "Create In" menu
09:56 <@froodian> everybody read what i wrote on the wiki page 09:56 <@ss|work> "e've pretty much decided that we should do comment 9, but that's a big
project. Is it ok with us for froodian to make the default selected
folder be the bookmarks bar (instead of the top of the list) as a
stop-gap measure?"
09:56 <@froodian> i just want a stop-gap solution until we can fix it properly 09:56 <@delliott> 1. No 09:57 <@froodian> delliott: wrong bug 09:57 <@froodian> (i think, since you're numbering it) 09:57 <@delliott> D'oh 09:57 <@BruceD> changing the default without re-ordering sounds like a sensible interim
solution
09:58 <@froodian> anybody else? pink? 09:58 <@pinkerton> i haven't been folowing 09:58 <@froodian> see ss|work's big comment 09:58 <@pinkerton> recall i'm triple booked 09:58 <@froodian> a few lines up 09:58 <@froodian> i know, i'm sorry 09:59 <@ss|work> And add a "W" to the beginning of my comment. 09:59 -!- SimonTheSoundMan [SimonTheSo@6F6BB858.80E17092.97A297A6.IP] has quit [Quit:
SimonTheSoundMan]
09:59 <@pinkerton> why can't we move the bookmark bar above it for everything? 09:59 <@froodian> because that's a big project too 10:00 <@froodian> (i think. that code is confusing as hell) 10:00 <@froodian> but i'd be willing to do that instead 10:00 <@pinkerton> get dhaas to fix it :) 10:00 <@ss|work> Haha 10:00 <@froodian> ok. if that's your answer, that's ok 10:01 <@froodian> i already have a patch for just slecting bookmarks bar by default though 10:01 < _Tsk_> Anybody in touch with dhaas ? 10:01 <@froodian> so it'd be very very easy ;) 10:01 <@pinkerton> we should remember what the user chose, eg, if they're adding a bunch
of bookmarks in a row to a folder, having to reselect that folder is a
bitch
10:01 <@froodian> yeah, we'd still do that 10:01 <@pinkerton> we fixed that a long time ago (0.7?) 10:01 <@froodian> this is just for the first selection after launch 10:01 <@pinkerton> just default to bookmark bar if no previous selection? 10:01 <@pinkerton> i'm ok with that 10:01 <@froodian> yes 10:01 <@pinkerton> ship it 10:02 <@ss|work> Next 10:02 <@froodian> :D 10:02 <@ss|work> bug 159230 10:02 < thebot> ss|work: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159230 nor, --,
Camino1.2, stridey@gmail.com, NEW, Should be able to bookmark a page
without an intermediate dialog
10:02 <@froodian> smfr postulates in comment 0 that we shouldn't have the intermediate
dialog by default
10:02 <@delliott> 1. No, 2. Dunno 10:03 <@froodian> 1 isn't a yes or no question ;) 10:03 <@ss|work> Heh 10:03 <@froodian> with the fix pinkerton just approved, not having a dialog would be ok
for users
10:03 <@froodian> since they'd be able to see their new bookmarks 10:03 <@froodian> on the bookmarks bar 10:03 <@ss|work> I still think we should have it by default 10:03 <@froodian> note that whatever we decide here we should also do for dragging
favicons to the bookmarks bar
10:03 <@pinkerton> cmd-shift-option-control-backspace-D? 10:03 <@froodian> (I think) 10:04 <@delliott> froodian: Then wtf does the question mean? 10:04 <@delliott> :p 10:04 <@ardissone|away> then no sheet ;) 10:04 <@delliott> pinkerton: Nice shortcut. 10:04 <@ardissone|away> sheet = intermediate dialogue ;) 10:04 <@froodian> delliott: it has two clauses. the appropriate answers are "intermediate
dialog" or "non-intermediate"
10:04 <@delliott> Intermediate dialog 10:05 <@froodian> why? 10:05 <@ss|work> What does Fx/Sf/Sm/Ow do? 10:05 <@delliott> You expect to be given the choice to name your bookmark. 10:05 <@peeja> i have to agree with delliott. 10:05 <@ardissone|away> to default to no dialogue, though, we have to fix tab grouping to
be keyboard-based
10:06 <@froodian> ardissone|away: mmm, yeah 10:06 <@Pinolo> uhm 10:06 <@froodian> ok, so i'm cool with leaving it having a dialog by default 10:06 <@froodian> but that'd mean that dragging to the bm bar should too 10:06 <@ardissone|away> ew 10:06 <@froodian> which i know some people don't like 10:06 <@froodian> exactly 10:06 <@ardissone|away> ;) 10:06 <@ss|work> No, I don't think dragging to the bookmark bar should be the same. 10:06 <@froodian> unless we're willing to change the decision you guys made last week 10:06 <@ss|work> It's a different action. 10:06 <@BruceD> prefer no-sheet as the default. suspect tab grouping is quite infrequent 10:06 <@delliott> I like it. 10:06 <@froodian> well, that's what people said when i was gone 10:06 <@ss|work> Dragging and dropping is different. 10:06 <@delliott> A different action to achieve the same goal. 10:07 <@ardissone|away> it's also easier to rename ex post facto on the bar 10:07 <@ss|work> mhm 10:07 <@ardissone|away> you can do so without changing your viuew 10:07 <@froodian> ok, so are we ok with dialog by default on menu item, but no dialog for
d'n'd?
10:07 <@ardissone|away> yes 10:07 <@ss|work> a=me 10:07 <@delliott> I'm not ok with it, but that's neither here nor there. 10:07 <@froodian> (by default. they'll both be possible) 10:07 <@Pinolo> the idea of changing the shortcut should have us thing very much before
making any changes
10:08 <@delliott> :p 10:08 <@froodian> right. keyboard. 10:08 <@Pinolo> think 10:08 <@ardissone|away> we can revisit the dialog when we get tab grouping hooked up to
the kybd
10:08 <@froodian> so, i propose we keep cmd-d for legacy 10:08 <@ss|work> I concur. 10:08 <@ardissone|away> right 10:08 <@froodian> but move to cmd-k for default keyboard shortcut 10:08 <@ss|work> With both of those statements. 10:08 <@ss|work> pinkerton: ^^ 10:08 <@froodian> so that cmd-opt-K can be "bookmark without intermediate dialog" 10:09 <@pinkerton> huh? 10:09 <@pinkerton> cmd-k wha? 10:09 <@ss|work> pinkerton: Are you okay with changing the bookmark keyboard shortcut to
cmd-k (so we can have alternates) but keep cmd-d as legacy?
10:09 <@Pinolo> is there a Camino shortcut map somewhere that we could keep ann eye on to
see if all makes sense?
10:09 <@froodian> the problem is that we need more bookmark-related keyboard shortcuts 10:10 <@delliott> Pinolo: Well volunteered! 10:10 <@froodian> but all modifiers concerned with D are taken 10:10 <@pinkerton> hmmm 10:10 <@ardissone|away> Pinolo: cbo/support 10:10 <@ss|work> But cbo is down currently 10:10 <@ardissone|away> :/ 10:10 <@pinkerton> i guess we could play with it, but we absolutely have to continue
supporting cmd-d
10:10 <@froodian> yes 10:10 <@ss|work> Of course. 10:10 <@froodian> absolutely 10:10 <@ardissone|away> absolutely 10:10 <@ss|work> Definitely. 10:10 <@delliott> Continue with the prospect of dropping in the future? 10:10 <@ardissone|away> that was never in question 10:11 <@ss|work> We'll probably never drop it. 10:11 <@delliott> Then why add in a new one? 10:11 <@delliott> Seems like overkill. 10:11 * ardissone|away who thought D was a good shortcut for bookmark 10:11 <@ss|work> *sigh* 10:11 <@ss|work> 10:09 <@froodian> the problem is that we need more bookmark-related
keyboard shortcuts
10:11 <@ss|work> 10:10 <@froodian> but all modifiers concerned with D are taken 10:11 * froodian was just copy/pasting that 10:11 <@ss|work> :) 10:11 * ardissone|away was too 10:11 <@delliott> Grumble 10:11 <@ss|work> That looks like it, overall. 10:12 <@froodian> awesome 10:12 <@ss|work> We touched on the other bugs earlier. 10:12 <@peeja> phew. 10:12 <@froodian> thank you guys for sticking it out for my specific bug list :) 10:12 <@ardissone|away> mhm 10:12 <@ss|work> Next week our meeting is on Tuesday 10:12 <@ss|work> pinkerton: ^^ 10:13 <@ss|work> Have a good week 10:13 <@ardissone|away> fix lots of bugs ;) 10:13 <@ss|work> And see most of you back here next week 10:13 <@ardissone|away> review lots of patches ;) 10:13 <@ss|work> Do lots of triage 10:13 <@ss|work> Find a new web host 10:13 <@ss|work> Oh wait, that's me. 10:13 <@froodian> eat lots of pie 10:13 <@delliott> Have beer 10:13 <@ardissone|away> finish the build instructions 10:13 <@delliott> ardissone|away: I've been taking screenshots while doing a fresh install. 10:14 <@delliott> Worthwhile? 10:14 <@Pinolo> just a little thing aboyut the topcrasher 10:14 <@ardissone|away> delliott: cool 10:14 <@ardissone|away> Pinolo: what's new? 10:14 <@Pinolo> I've been using the 180branch build and bloglines for a week and it looks
robust
10:14 <@ardissone|away> good :) 10:14 <@Pinolo> never a crash 10:14 <@froodian> sweet 10:14 <@ardissone|away> :D 10:14 <@ardissone|away> i'll poke meg in the bug and then wfm it
