Status Meetings:2008-11-19:Log

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[02:04am] You were promoted to operator by chanserv.
[02:04am] You changed the topic to "http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2008-11-19:Agenda".
[02:04am] cl|zzz was promoted to operator by you.
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[12:02pm] smorgan was promoted to operator by cl|zzz.
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[12:02pm] peeja was promoted to operator by you.
[12:02pm] jeff joined the chat room.
[12:03pm] jeff was promoted to operator by you.
[12:04pm] ardissone: did pink wander off?
[12:05pm] cl|zzz is now known as cl.
[12:08pm] hendy joined the chat room.
[12:08pm] hendy was promoted to operator by you.
[12:08pm] mento joined the chat room.
[12:08pm] mento was promoted to operator by chanserv.
[12:10pm] ardissone: ok, wherever pink ran off to, he can find us when he returns
[12:11pm] ardissone: everyone please open http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2008-11-19:Agenda in your Camino 2.0a1 or newer
[12:11pm] ardissone: i'm going to swap the order back 
[12:11pm] ardissone: we released 1.6.5 yesterday
[12:12pm] ardissone: once again proving that a bread-truck can't keep us down
[12:12pm] ardissone: i haven't had a chance to look for any feedback yet
[12:13pm] pinkerton joined the chat room.
[12:13pm] smorgan: versiontracker users think we are good for spamming
[12:13pm] pinkerton: moof
[12:13pm] pinkerton was promoted to operator by you.
[12:13pm] smorgan: So I guess that's a sign of popuplarity?
[12:13pm] ardissone: also that we've shrunk the download to only 5k
[12:14pm] ardissone: we apparently use some new form of compression algorithm straight from mento's brain 
[12:14pm] pinkerton: hot
[12:15pm] ardissone: then 1.6.6 will be on the table next month as MoCo EOLs Gecko 1.8.1 for non-Thunderbird applications
[12:16pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 1.6.x?
[12:18pm] ardissone: 2.0a1, then
[12:18pm] ardissone: it's been out for a month now
[12:18pm] ardissone: give-or-take
[12:18pm] ardissone: we only had 10 new talkback incidents over the last week
[12:19pm] ardissone: which is 1/3 of what we've been averaging
[12:19pm] pinkerton: that's good, right?
[12:19pm] ardissone: i think it's bad
[12:19pm] ardissone: given how crashy Gecko on 10.4 is
[12:19pm] ardissone: there were no new crashes from that
[12:20pm] ardissone: so i'm afraid people have given up
[12:20pm] pinkerton: oh
[12:20pm] smorgan: Or they all bought new computers
[12:20pm] pinkerton: oh 10 total, not 10 ones we haven't seen.
[12:20pm] ardissone: true, the new MacBooks must be shippinh
[12:21pm] ardissone: right, +10 last week
[12:21pm] ardissone: instead of +30
[12:21pm] pinkerton: well maybe we need an a2?
[12:21pm] ardissone: other than the fact we've already moved the numbers to b1 
[12:22pm] ardissone: the Gecko fixes haven't landed yet
[12:22pm] pinkerton: heh
[12:22pm] ardissone: on 1.9
[12:23pm] ardissone: i'd much rather push to b1, anyway, but it's blocked by that crash and tab dragging...
[12:23pm] smorgan: Someone should nominate that probably
[12:23pm] smorgan: It's been baking about a week, right?
[12:23pm] ardissone: smorgan: will you look at the new swizzling stacks?
[12:23pm] ardissone: 11-09
[12:23pm] ardissone: so yeah, a week
[12:24pm] smorgan: ss: is that enough bake for 1.9.0.6 landing?
[12:24pm] smorgan: ardissone: can't really tell anything; looks like some event was destined for something that's gone
[12:24pm] smorgan: But there's good news
[12:25pm] smorgan: That may be the same bug as the other crasher if these are 10.4
[12:25pm] ardissone: Darwin 8.11.0?
[12:25pm] ss: 1.9.0.6 won't start taking checkins for two or three weeks.
[12:25pm] smorgan: I forget how they line up
[12:25pm] smorgan: ss: ew
[12:25pm] ardissone: 8.11.0 is 10.4.11
[12:25pm] ss: And 1.9.0.5 is basically frozen.
[12:26pm] smorgan: Hm, mostly not 10.4 then; drat
[12:26pm] smorgan: Possibly related to the key loop stuff?
[12:26pm] ardissone: even better 
[12:27pm] ardissone: ss: is it likely that will land right away when 1.9.06 does oepn?
[12:27pm] ardissone: open?
[12:27pm] smorgan: But I saw a crash with a stack like that on a PPC 10.4 machine, and when I debugged it it was a graphics context that was gone and had messed up other stuff as a result
[12:27pm] ss: ardissone: I really don't know which bug you're talking about.
[12:27pm] ardissone: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=458961
[12:27pm] ardissone: the 100s+ crashes/day bug 
[12:27pm] smorgan: Also known as "10.4 = epic fail"
[12:28pm] ss: We'll only take that if it actually reduces the number of crashes
[12:28pm] ardissone: (all the way up to 10.5.0b5, too)
[12:28pm] ss: Which we'll base on Firefox 3.1b2 numbers
[12:28pm] ss: So I don't know when it's likely to land
[12:29pm] ardissone: well, i suppose if we're ready and MoCo is not, we can minibranch that patch
[12:29pm] ardissone: on that note
[12:30pm] ardissone: i see we have murph in the audience, so let's put him on the hot seat 
[12:30pm] ardissone: to tell us about our draggable future
[12:30pm] murph: hehehe 
[12:30pm] murph: I have the patch v2 ready to submit in about a half hour 
[12:31pm] ardissone:
[12:31pm] ardissone: best news i've heard in weeks!
[12:31pm] murph: I'm sorry this one took so long, there were a good bit of changes to make it more robust and elegant when tabs close
[12:31pm] murph: and I should have plenty of time to respond more quickly with another refresh if it's needed
[12:32pm] ardissone: good (though let's hope it's not  )
[12:32pm] ardissone: and while you wait on review, you can go back to some of the other bugs?
[12:33pm] murph: yes, I sure can
[12:33pm] ardissone: how hard would hooking tabsposé up to the key loop be?
[12:35pm] ardissone: since it's a bit silly we've put all this effort into the loop, and then our big new feature is completely inaccessible to the keyboard 
[12:36pm] murph: hmmmm, I don't think it'd be hard at all...
[12:37pm] murph: I will definitely take a look at it
[12:37pm] ardissone: ok, sounds good
[12:37pm] ardissone: jeff: any news, tabsposé or otherwise, from you?
[12:38pm] jeff: no 
[12:38pm] ardissone: ok
[12:38pm] ardissone: philippe is working on the icon
[12:38pm] ardissone: which is heading towards a consensus
[12:39pm] ardissone: so we should be good for landing the toolbar hookup for b1
[12:40pm] ardissone: hendy: do you have anything in the pot right now?
[12:40pm] hendy: not much
[12:40pm] hendy: i'd like people's opinion on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326872
[12:41pm] hendy: specifically, the 2px higher tabs
[12:41pm] ardissone: yeah
[12:41pm] hendy: i've been using them for over a week
[12:41pm] ardissone: this image, specifically: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=346960
[12:41pm] hendy: i don't think i'll be able to go back to the old ones - they look to cramped to me now
[12:41pm] hendy: i get nice crisp favicons too
[12:42pm] ardissone: (this also gives us 16x16 site icons in the tabs, obviously)
[12:42pm] ardissone: i say "ship it" but I don't get to make that call 
[12:43pm] hendy: the fix involves a few lines of code, a change to a nib, and resizing of 5 or 6 tiffs
[12:43pm] hendy: the themers will have to modify their images
[12:43pm] smorgan: It looks odd to me in a screenshot, but I'm inclined to say we land it and try it out for a while
[12:43pm] smorgan: I think that's probably the only way we'll get a good sense of it
[12:44pm] hendy: k, i'll get a patch together
[12:44pm] smorgan: pinkerton: does that seem reasonable?
[12:45pm] pinkerton: looks
[12:45pm] ardissone: (i think the images in the bg tabs look pushed higher in that screenshot, whereas now they're pushed towards the lower edge)
[12:45pm] pinkerton: i say ship it
[12:45pm] ardissone: weeps not for those 2px
[12:45pm] smorgan: I'm sure we'll get screaming about it
[12:45pm] ardissone: me too 
[12:46pm] smorgan: "I need those 2px more than my eyes!"
[12:46pm] hendy: ardissone: that shifting can be tweaked
[12:46pm] ss: Should we rename them too?
[12:46pm] ss: The files I mean
[12:46pm] ardissone: haha
[12:46pm] ss: What's the affect if someone replaces a 24px with a 22px version?
[12:46pm] ss: Meaning: Themers will do this.
[12:46pm] smorgan: It'll look odd, probably
[12:46pm] ss: If we rename them, their changes will have no affect.
[12:46pm] ss: effect*
[12:46pm] hendy: the tabs will look shorted
[12:46pm] hendy: shorter
[12:47pm] smorgan: The themes need to be updated either way
[12:47pm] smorgan: I don't want to make extra work for us
[12:47pm] ss: Yeah
[12:47pm] ardissone: file renames are a pita
[12:47pm] ardissone: says the guy who did it the last time 
[12:47pm] smorgan: Besides, if I ever do my tab drawing overhaul we'll have new file names anyway
[12:48pm] ardissone: we'll just post about it, and davedit will surely do so on PMC, too
[12:48pm] cl: a=me on the taller tabs
[12:48pm] hendy: sweet
[12:48pm] ardissone: hendy: your other site icon patch is still in want of a reviewer, no?
[12:48pm] cl: I think part of the "they look higher in bg tabs" bit is that the Bugzilla favicon just looks that way
[12:48pm] hendy: yeah
[12:48pm] smorgan: Shall we switch them to match the bookmark bar gradient as long as we are making new images?
[12:48pm] ardissone: possibly
[12:49pm] ardissone: need a nice globe icon for one site 
[12:49pm] smorgan: Right now they are almost-but-not-quite the same, and have a shiney line
[12:49pm] smorgan: shiny
[12:49pm] ardissone: hendy: yeah to cl, or yeah to me?
[12:49pm] hendy: both
[12:49pm] ardissone: ok
[12:50pm] ardissone: someone please also review the "choose the best sized icon in multiple-member cases"
[12:50pm] hendy: though i probably need to update the patch
[12:50pm] ardissone: so the bbc can stop sucking
[12:50pm] ardissone: ok, then hold off on reviewing
[12:50pm] ardissone: but can we get a volunteer hendy can r?
[12:51pm] ardissone: ss: any icon updates from you?
[12:52pm] ss: No
[12:52pm] ardissone: i'm assuming no, since you haven't done the backout yet, eituer
[12:52pm] smorgan: I can do the r if no-one else can, but it may be a bit slow
[12:53pm] hendy: thanks; no great hurry
[12:53pm] cl: I'm happy to do the review on that patch
[12:53pm] ardissone: we have possibly cl and possibly murph
[12:53pm] cl: that'll save smorgan's time for something more important.
[12:53pm] hendy: cool
[12:53pm] hendy: that's sounds good to me
[12:53pm] ardissone: i'll land Gecko strings today
[12:54pm] ardissone: and we can start weeding out the files that we never use
[12:54pm] ardissone: and the files we use but which the string bundle override ignores, or something like that
[12:54pm] ardissone: and we can pretend something will fix the dtds 
[12:54pm] ardissone: cl: how's batwood and flashblock?
[12:55pm] cl: still no word
[12:55pm] ardissone: should cl just pick it up at this point?
[12:56pm] ardissone: and i'll make my weekly weep for breakpad ;)
[12:56pm] ardissone: oh
[12:56pm] ardissone: also
[12:57pm] ardissone: now that Safari has shipped with Google Safe Browsing, should we check in with ian fette and see the status of that licensed data/v2 protocol situation?
[12:58pm] ardissone: i suppose Safari could be using v1 and caching the data at Apple, since Apple does have Akamai
[12:59pm] ardissone: (where by "we" I mean "pinkerton" ;) )
[1:00pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else on 2.x?
[1:00pm] murph: has been crossing his fingers since he saw that feature in Safari
[1:00pm] smorgan: I started working on the exception UI this weekend
[1:00pm] smorgan: But I didn't finish, obviously
[1:00pm] ardissone: :)
[1:01pm] ardissone: fyi, i did some updates to Deveoplment:Reviewing based on some questions from ilya this weekend; in particular, I split code style and "how to put stuff in a patch" into Development:Coding
[1:01pm] pinkerton: i have email sent to ian already
[1:01pm] ardissone: :D
[1:01pm] pinkerton: he's in africa until the end of the week
[1:01pm] ardissone: haha
[1:02pm] ardissone: at Google Timbucktu?
[1:03pm] ardissone: So if you're used to finding something in Development:Reviewing (or pointing people at it), it may have moved to Development:Coding
[1:03pm] ardissone: anyone have anything else today?
[1:03pm] hendy: if someone knowledgeable about gecko and the build system has the time, i'd like some help on getting camino to compile with the places backend. no great hurry - it's just something that i've been trying out and failing at.
[1:06pm] ardissone: ok, please do mind the review queues
[1:07pm] ardissone: everyone please watch those, fix things, and have a good week! :)
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