Status Meetings:2010-10-27:Log

Log from #camino-mtg starting 2010-10-27 15:40:09 -0400

Link to a time in the log by using a URL like http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2010-10-27:Log#12:00

15:40		» ardissone was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
15:40		» ardissone changed the topic to "http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2010-10-27:Agenda".
15:57		» chrispet joined the chat room.
15:57		» chrispet is now known as cpeterso.
15:59		» ilya joined the chat room.
16:01		» cpeterso was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:01		» ilya was promoted to operator by ardissone.
16:01	ardissone:	cpeterso: hi!
16:01	cpeterso:	howdy
16:01	ardissone:	thanks for all the hacking you've been doing :)
16:02	cpeterso:	thx. Just keeping myself busy. :)
16:02	ardissone:	ilya: do you know if pink's coming?
16:02	ardissone:	assumes you're in that channel already ;)
16:03	ardissone:	smorgan said he had a meeting today
16:03	ilya:	pink's not in the chromium channel either
16:03	ardissone:	ok
16:03	ardissone:	so i guess no pink either :(
16:04	ardissone:	i guess we'll get started
16:04	ardissone:	http://wiki.caminobrowser.org/Status_Meetings:2010-10-27:Agenda
16:05	ardissone:	we should give cpeterso a rousing Camino welcome :)
16:05	ardissone:	which would be more rousing if there were more than three live bodies
16:07	ilya:	tips his hat, stomps, cheers
16:07	ardissone:	gets sauron to blink his giant eye
16:07	sauron:	blinks
16:07	cpeterso:	or wink? can't tell. :)
16:07	ardissone:	(sauron is me on the MBP)
16:07	ardissone:	:)
16:08	ardissone:	(for reasons that are too long to go into here)
16:08	ardissone:	so, yesterday we released 2.0.5
16:08	ardissone:	the bad news is we shipped a JEP that broke Yahoo games and pogo.com :(
16:09	ardissone:	that escaped Mozilla QA, too :P
16:09	ardissone:	but our users discovered it within hours
16:09	cpeterso:	JEP=?
16:09	ardissone:	Java embeddding Plugin
16:09	ardissone:	the thing that lets Gecko browsers use Java > 1.3.x
16:10	cpeterso:	does mozilla have a fix ETA?
16:10	ardissone:	not yet
16:10	ardissone:	it's a semi-thrird party product
16:11	ardissone:	steven michaud develops it; he's a MoCo contractor
16:12	ardissone:	hmm, looks like Steven can't repro on 10.5 for some reason
16:12	ardissone:	i'll get back to him after the meeting
16:12	ardissone:	but it'll be a while, probably :(
16:12	ardissone:	the buggy JEP fixes a major security hole, so we can't really recommend users go back to 2.0.4 or downgrade
16:13	ardissone:	On the good news front
16:13	ardissone:	the new flash-check is showing some positive results
16:13	ardissone:	stuart did some quick checking today
16:14	ardissone:	the latest flash version's gone from 30% of Camino 2.0.x users on cbo on Monday to 39% today
16:14	ardissone:	and Flash 10.0r45 is dropping
16:14	cpeterso:	I'm actually an engineer on Adobe's Flash Player team (though I work on Android and Linux, not Mac).
16:14	cpeterso:	So that's great news to my ears. <:)
16:15	ardissone:	so we're both getting 10.1 users to upgrade to latest, and 10.0 users to 10.1
16:15	ardissone:	:)
16:15	ardissone:	hopefully it keeps up
16:16	cpeterso:	Unfortunately, the Mac engineer says Firefox's Breakpad crash dumps are not very useful for post-mortem debugging. I don't know why.
16:16	cpeterso:	But if there is any info or connections on the Flash team that would be helpful to you guys, just let me know.
16:17	ardissone:	ok :)
16:17	ardissone:	we've hacked around one of the two serious issues
16:18	ardissone:	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577567
16:19	ardissone:	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541897 is the other one; we really don't know if that's a Gecko bug (special-casing for Firefox and not Camino), or Flash doing something special in Firefox and not Camino
16:20	cpeterso:	I can take a look at those bugs or pass them on to an Adobe engineer.
16:22	ardissone:	the first one we reported when Flash 10.0 came out and then hacked around; it would be nice to have a fix, but it's not critical
16:22	ardissone:	the second one, the more eyes the better
16:22	ardissone:	Stuart is swamped right now, and it's going to require deep debugging :(
16:23	ardissone:	although since someone mentioned Silverlight, I guess that mostly rules out Flash…
16:23	ardissone:	and rules in Gecko :P
16:24	ardissone:	at any rate
16:24	ardissone:	thanks :)
16:24	cpeterso:	When do you expect to release 2.0.6? Right after JEP fix?
16:25	ardissone:	it depends
16:25	ardissone:	if we get lots of complaints from users about the broken games, yes
16:25	ardissone:	if not, when we have a couple of bugs to ride along
16:26	ardissone:	(to prevent update fatigue and updates with "little perceived value")
16:26	ardissone:	also depending on where we are with 2.1a1
16:27	ardissone:	the big 2.0.x crash is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=512730
16:27	ardissone:	it's the worst crash in Camino code we've had probably since I've been around
16:27	cpeterso:	When 2.1.a1 is eventually released, will there be more alphas or a beta before 2.1 final?
16:27	ardissone:	probably just b1
16:28	ardissone:	depends on how fast we can get the rest of the autocomplete bugs fixed, and any other regressions that are major
16:28	ardissone:	this was supposed to be a "fast" release :P
16:29	ardissone:	but the autocomplete rewrite has been quite a drag
16:29	ardissone:	and dan was going to come back and work more on it, but he disappeared
16:29	ardissone:	we want to get everyone off of Gecko 1.9 as fast as we humanly can :P
16:30	cpeterso:	are the autocomplete bugs a1 blockers? or just 2.1?
16:30	ardissone:	without making them suffer
16:30	ardissone:	the perf issue is a1
16:30	ardissone:	and it will only be partly fixed for a1
16:31	ardissone:	the rest of it, and some of the other bugs, will be for 2.1/b1
16:31	cpeterso:	ok
16:32	ardissone:	the 2.1-target and 2.1? lists will be pretty agressively trimmed after a1
16:32	ardissone:	(first 2 links in the Camino 2.1 section down under Queries)
16:33	ardissone:	we like to have the final beta be feature-complete with all the major bugs fixed
16:33	ardissone:	and only small polish things left
16:33	ardissone:	we've tried the 1 beta thing several times, and it typically becomes at least 2 :P
16:33	ardissone:	but we'll see
16:33	cpeterso:	Will Mac OS X 10.4 or PowerPC still be supported for after 2.1?
16:34	ardissone:	only if we attempt to do another release off of Gecko 1.9.2
16:34	ardissone:	which I don';t think we'll do
16:34	cpeterso:	sounds good to me :)
16:35	ardissone:	to close out 2.0.5, it looks like for some reason we're seeing some strange stacks in breakpad this time around
16:36	ardissone:	where there's a garbage frame below _start and start
16:36	ardissone:	and below the garbage frame is -[BrowserWrapper removeTransientBar:display:]
16:37	ardissone:	i'll keep an eye on that
16:37	ardissone:	anything else on 2.0.5?
16:37	cpeterso:	I seem to be the only other live person, but I know nothing about 2.0.5 news. <:)
16:38	ardissone:	i've been busy, so I didn't get stats done, so no updates on the 1.6.x scary update for 10.4+ users
16:38	ardissone:	hehe
16:38	ardissone:	we've mostly covered 2.0.6 already, too
16:39	cpeterso:	Will be 1.6 be EOL'd when 2.1 is released?
16:39	ardissone:	1.6 is EOLed
16:39	ardissone:	when we released 2.0
16:39	cpeterso:	ok
16:40	ardissone:	we had a large contingent of people on 10.4+ that stuck there for some reason
16:40	ardissone:	and we've been trying to move them off
16:40	ardissone:	but that's really the only reason we keep talking about it
16:41	ardissone:	On 2.1
16:41	ardissone:	we've talked about most of that already
16:41	ardissone:	stuart had nothing new on autocomplete
16:42	ardissone:	he'll be busy/gone until mid-week next week, so maybe something then
16:42	ardissone:	hopefully we can get pink to sr the stuff he has waiting by then :P
16:43	cpeterso:	ok. I can try to investigate at some (unassigned) 2.1 blocker bugs.
16:43	ardissone:	masayuki's latest Ts regression fix did work
16:43	ardissone:	:)
16:43	cpeterso:	Ts=?
16:44	ardissone:	Startup time test
16:44	ardissone:	http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/perf.html?size=50&days=2&avg=1&autoscale=1
16:44	cpeterso:	pretty pictures!
16:44	ardissone:	haha
16:45	ardissone:	(also on the Ts front, the random Ts hit that cb-x4 took a few months ago just as randomly went away last week :P )
16:46	ardissone:	um
16:47	ardissone:	lost train of thought
16:48	ardissone:	i have a couple of random patches in flight, and i need to finish up the build-system-related things
16:49	ardissone:	but last i checked, there was nothing 2.1-specific besides the build stuff i could fix
16:49	ardissone:	so i'll keep fixing random bugs as I have time/am able
16:49	ardissone:	:P
16:49	ardissone:	i hope to ping murph and hendy later this week
16:49	cpeterso:	sounds good.
16:50	ardissone:	the review queue is pretty bad right now
16:50	ardissone:	it's spread around, but no-one's really moving ;)
16:50	ardissone:	cl's going to be gone until early next month
16:51	ardissone:	stuart until next week
16:51	ardissone:	ilya: any idea when you might be able to get to the one aimed at you?
16:52	cpeterso:	suggestion: on the wiki page of reviewers for feature areas, it would be helpful to include the reviewers' bugzilla email address.
16:52	ardissone:	mm
16:53	ilya:	I'll try to get to it this week
16:53	ardissone:	i thought most of the nicks produced unique results
16:53	cpeterso:	I don't know everyone, so I sometimes have to find an old bug and copy/paste a particular reviewer's bugzilla email address from there.
16:53	ardissone:	ilya: :)
16:54	ardissone:	cpeterso: bugzilla completes on names, too
16:54	cpeterso:	I will try that. I swear that it wasn't working for me.. :\
16:54	ardissone:	k
16:54	ilya:	I haven't seen bugzilla complete on anything
16:54	ilya:	I just type something into the box and cross my fingers
16:55	ardissone:	i'll try to look and see whose nicks listed there aren't unique
16:55	ardissone:	really?
16:55	ardissone:	is it not hooked up for reviews?
16:55	ilya:	I mean, it completes once I submit
16:55	ilya:	but there's no dropdown
16:55	ilya:	so I just hope that what I've typed is unique enough
16:55	cpeterso:	and I think Bugzilla know more than one Ilya.
16:55	ardissone:	hrm
16:55	cpeterso:	_might know_
16:56	ardissone:	you're right, it doesn't autocomplete for reviews :/
16:56	ardissone:	ok
16:57	ardissone:	cpeterso: can you file a bug on me to make sure that we list "unique matches" there where irc nicks aren't?
16:57	ardissone:	i don't want to open for more spam with email
16:57	cpeterso:	ok
16:57	ardissone:	but providing unique matches should be enogh
16:58	ardissone:	(for ilya, ishermandom ;) )
16:58	ardissone:	but thanks for brining that up :)
16:58	ardissone:	caminoplanet's still not working
16:58	ardissone:	i tried yesterday to fix it
16:59	ardissone:	and got back to status quo post-SSL issues on the server
16:59	ardissone:	(where venus was running, but not updating :P )
16:59	ardissone:	so that's going to have to wait for Sam (and probably for the server migration) :(
17:00	ardissone:	i do want to blog again about all the progress we've made since august
17:01	ardissone:	but not when no-one gets to read it :(
17:01	ardissone:	anyone else have anything else today?
17:01	cpeterso:	nope.
17:02	ardissone:	ok, everyone please work on 2.1/a1 bugs and reviews, and have a good week :)
17:02	ardissone:	and cpeterso, welcome and good to see you :)
17:02	cpeterso:	thx